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Author Topic: Warning about 8-bit Carts on eBay
Albert
Admin

Member # 3

posted 04-20-2002 01:10 PM     Profile for Albert   Author's Homepage   Email Albert     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just wanted to give everyone a heads up on some 8-bit carts that are currently up on eBay:

eBay Seller List: ndary

Two of the carts this seller currently has up are Hard Hack Mac and Who Dares Win 2. These games were never released in cartridge form, and this seller has a history of selling very convincing copies of Atari 8-bit carts. While I'm not crazy about someone selling copies of games on eBay, what irritates me here is the seller makes no mention of the fact that these are copies. So people may be bidding on these carts thinking they are originals. Soon they'll start showing up in Atari 8-bit cart lists and we'll be getting emails asking how rare they are and why we don't have any info about them online (once we put our 8-bit section up).

So a word to the wise, if you buy anything from this seller be warned that you may simply be buying a copy and not an original game. In our opinion ndary is misrepresenting the items he is selling.

..Al


Posts: 2880 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mario's Other Brother
Atari Pro

Member # 545

posted 04-20-2002 10:05 PM     Profile for Mario's Other Brother   Author's Homepage   Email Mario's Other Brother     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Tapper cart he is selling is also a copy. Tapper is now listed as not released. It was carried on cart lists for years because Sega had it in their catalog and everyone assumed it existed. Last year, however, there was a newsgroup discussion of some of the carts on Andrew Kreig's list. Quite a few were removed as vaporware. Anyway, no collector could come forward with an actual Tapper cart. It was reclassified as NR and, so far, no one else has claimed to have one.

MOB ‹(•¿•)›


Posts: 156 | From: Houston | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Krawhitham
Jr. Atari Fan

Member # 1373

posted 04-20-2002 10:35 PM     Profile for Krawhitham   Email Krawhitham     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Tapper
XEGS64
dumped okay

Who Dares Wins II
XEGS64
dumped okay


they are "Hacked/pirated/homemade Carts" but there are a few hundred floating around

found nothing on Hard Hat Mac but I assume it is the same type of thing


Posts: 5 | From: | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tempest
Moderator
Master of Prototypes

Member # 38

posted 04-20-2002 11:23 PM     Profile for Tempest   Author's Homepage   Email Tempest     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Which carts were moved to the Vaporware section? It's always hard to figure out if something is just really really rare or unreleased. I was about to pass Matterhorn by Tigervision off as not being relesed, but one popped up on Ebay a few months back. Talk about a low production run...

Tempest


Posts: 2402 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mario's Other Brother
Atari Pro

Member # 545

posted 04-21-2002 09:26 AM     Profile for Mario's Other Brother   Author's Homepage   Email Mario's Other Brother     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
IIRC, the discussion started around Parker Bros Tutankham. Lance Ringquist confirmed it didn't exist. All those Synapse carts were removed. Don't remember them all Zeppelin, Survivor, Shadow World etc. Chessmaster 2000, Rosen's Brigade , Doc Goodcode's Cavern, Movie Maker. Tapper, Sammy Lightfoot, Capture the Flag, Bumper Bash, Frantic Freddie, Rock & Rhythm, Aegean Voyage. Most were removed because no one could confirm existence. Some were just mistakes to begin with.

There is another group which only few examples exist per title. Matterhorn, Espial, Da'Fuzz, Lifespan among them. It could be that these are loaner/tester/review carts. A production , even a small one, would be in the hundreds of carts. More people would have them.

MOB ‹(•¿•)›


Posts: 156 | From: Houston | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tempest
Moderator
Master of Prototypes

Member # 38

posted 04-21-2002 11:10 AM     Profile for Tempest   Author's Homepage   Email Tempest     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Are you sure its Da'Fuzz and not D'Fuse? There's a Vic-20 game called D'Fuse that was never released, but the programmer gave Ward a prototype of it.

Tempest


Posts: 2402 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alex
Admin

Member # 1

posted 04-21-2002 12:13 PM     Profile for Alex   Author's Homepage   Email Alex     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Has anyone contacted this individual about clarifying his auctions? If he refuses to do so he should be reported to eBay, because he is clearly violating their user policy. I wouldn't have a problem with it if he would just be clear about what he's selling.

- Alex


Posts: 696 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Krawhitham
Jr. Atari Fan

Member # 1373

posted 04-21-2002 12:18 PM     Profile for Krawhitham   Email Krawhitham     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have da'fuzz and lifespan cartridges if anybody needs rom dumps for them let me know.

"Has anyone contacted this individual about clarifying his auctions? If he refuses to do so he should be reported to eBay, because he is clearly violating their user policy"

he is not doing anything wrong he is selling cartridge version of those games which do exist in very small numbers


Posts: 5 | From: | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tempest
Moderator
Master of Prototypes

Member # 38

posted 04-21-2002 12:24 PM     Profile for Tempest   Author's Homepage   Email Tempest     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The problem is he's selling the games as if they are real cartridges from Atari and they are not. They are games transferred from disk to cartridge form, yet he makes no mention of this in the auction description.

Tempest


Posts: 2402 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alex
Admin

Member # 1

posted 04-21-2002 12:29 PM     Profile for Alex   Author's Homepage   Email Alex     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Krawhitham:
he is not doing anything wrong he is selling cartridge version of those games which do exist in very small numbers

The problem is that those are not real Atari releases. Those are hobbyist cartrdiges that he made himself. By not clarifying that fact, he may be selling to people who are not getting what they think they're getting.

And if that isn't enough for you, technically it's copyright violation and illegal.

- Alex


Posts: 696 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Atari Frog
Jr. Atari Fan

Member # 1416

posted 04-21-2002 12:56 PM     Profile for Atari Frog   Email Atari Frog     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello everybody,

Krawhitham, are your Roklan cartridges prototypes?
Do you have pictures?

I also have several questions about Tapper...
How many versions actually exist?
Is the European release on disk the same as the US release?
Is the European tape release a tweaked version with less screens?
Another strange thing is that the version on the Master Games compilation by US Gold has a different title screen!
Opinions?

Atari Frog

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: Atari Frog ]


Posts: 2 | From: | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mario's Other Brother
Atari Pro

Member # 545

posted 04-21-2002 01:48 PM     Profile for Mario's Other Brother   Author's Homepage   Email Mario's Other Brother     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Are you sure its Da'Fuzz and not D'Fuse?

No, its the Da'Fuzz by Roklan. Most of ones I mention are similar. They were at computer shows and reviewed in the magazines, but then never showed up. Probably caused by "Da'Crash" . Its pure speculation on my part, but the carts of these titles would seem to be of the promotional variety. I mean you dont have a production of 5 or 10 carts, do you?

MOB ‹(•¿•)›


Posts: 156 | From: Houston | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Atari Frog
Jr. Atari Fan

Member # 1416

posted 04-21-2002 01:52 PM     Profile for Atari Frog   Email Atari Frog     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi again,

<< Lance Ringquist confirmed it [Tutankham] didn't exist >>

There is a Parker Brothers ad where you can see the box of the Atari 8-bit version.
Pretty odd...

<< All those Synapse carts were removed. Don't remember them all Zeppelin, Survivor, Shadow World etc. >>

Not so sure about the Synapse carts.
Still, you're correct, until somebody spots one...
Interesting fact, though: Survivor and Shadow World, if I'm not mistaken, are EXACT 16K games (132 sectors on an Atari disk).

<< Chessmaster 2000 >>

How did this one get into the list?

<< Rosen's Brigade >>

A mistake from the beginning.
It was marketed by Gentry Software, which was the "budget" division of Datasoft.
Why would they have sold cartridges?

<< Doc Goodcode's Cavern >>

A game written in BASIC which, I think, never even appeared on tape.
How did this one initially enter the list?

<< Movie Maker >>

Could exist as a prototype somewhere...

<< Sammy Lightfoot >>

Could this one exist as a beta?

<< Capture the Flag >>

I have the manual for that one, I'll check if it mentions a ROM version.
BTW, how about Megaforce, Alien and Deadly Duck?
According to a game manual (don't remember which, maybe Turmoil?), these were available.
Maybe they were programmed to some point?

<< Bumper Bash >>

Mentioned in some dealer ads.

<< Frantic Freddie >>

A legend probably...
But how about Gold Mine?

<< Rock & Rhythm >>

Yep, probably disk only.

<< Aegean Voyage >>

Was to be released along with Ranch and Bubble Burst.
This one appears on the Spinnaker Software catalogs.

Atari Frog


Posts: 2 | From: | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
duckandcover
Atari Fan

Member # 1261

posted 04-21-2002 04:43 PM     Profile for duckandcover   Email duckandcover     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I hope that this doesn't come across as just me ranting but if it does, oh well. I've been collecting 2600 carts for a couple of years now, and in the process, I've learned (to a certain degree), how to spot items of questionable authenticity. But as far as 8-bit items go, I'm still pretty much a newbie. Heck, I didn't even know Andrew Kreig's list even existed until a helpful member of this board directed me to it. I say all that to say that it would be very easy for someone like me to get suckered by auctions like this. I grant you, you will get a playable game for your computer system, but I would have probably purchased the cart thinking it was something authentic. It seems to me that deceptive practices like these are designed to take advantage of the inexperienced, and I think that they have a negative impact on the entire auction community. I wish sellers like ndary would be up front about the nature of their products. There's nothing wrong with selling copies, provided the buyer knows what they're really getting.
Posts: 42 | From: Odessa, TX | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ndary
Jr. Atari Fan

Member # 1423

posted 04-22-2002 12:47 AM     Profile for ndary   Author's Homepage   Email ndary     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
interesting how I was introduced to this message board.. its shame that things are said about me without letting me know... if some one wants to know.. please ask.. I am not hiding from anyone!!!

first I would like to point out that I have no intention to mislead anyone.. its not the 1st time that I post an item on eBay.. (eBay is the easiest way for me to buy Atari items and sell extra stuff that I have)

in the past I posted several cartridge on eBay and clearly wrote, that the cartridges are made form prototype rom images and they are not an original release from Atari.. (I never claimed to be the source who knows anything about ATARI XL/XE cartridge history) for the ones who are more involved in the Atari scene you will find that I am not the only one who have this cartridges.. my contact information are also available on that page to anyone who would like to ask or clear any question..

keeping the ATARI XL/XE ALIVE is my dream. in my spare time i collect and reveal unique Atari items.. and i have been supporting the Atari community for the past 10 years..
http://thor.prohosting.com/~atari8/

For the ones who does not like these auctions.. simply dont bid.. every item i post is fully tested... and clearly saies what it is..

Reviving your Atari.. http://thor.prohosting.com/~atari8/


Posts: 5 | From: Israel | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alex
Admin

Member # 1

posted 04-22-2002 12:56 AM     Profile for Alex   Author's Homepage   Email Alex     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
ndary,

Can you please clarify this for me? Is Tapper a real cartridge that was released by Atari, or did you make this yourself?

Thanks.

- Alex


Posts: 696 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albert
Admin

Member # 3

posted 04-22-2002 01:18 AM     Profile for Albert   Author's Homepage   Email Albert     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ndary:
first I would like to point out that I have no intention to mislead anyone.. its not the 1st time that I post an item on eBay.. (eBay is the easiest way for me to buy Atari items and sell extra stuff that I have)

I'm sorry this is how you were introduced to our message boards, but since you no longer seem to be informing people that your auctions are not original carts, it's only fair that we give people a heads up here. If you stated clearly in these auctions that these are simply reproductions and not original cartridges, I'd have much less of a problem with them.

However, I've seen an email someone sent John Hardie informing him about a "previously undiscovered cart" that turned out to be one of your 8-bit cartridge auctions. I have no doubt that many people look at your auctions and think, "Holy cow! I've never seen that 8-bit cart before!", then bid on these carts thinking they're the genuine article. And even if people don't bid, since you don't have a disclaimer stating that these are not original carts, many people might believe these games exist. Then they'll start showing up in various lists online as officially released carts, we'll get questions about them, and we'll have to spend time educating people that these are only copies and are not the real thing.

As it stands now, your current round of auctions is misleading, as have several previous rounds of fake 8-bit carts I've seen you run. It is not the bidder's responsibility to have to ask, "Is this a real cartridge or a copy?" If you are sincere in not wanting to mislead people then hopefully you will add this missing information to your future auctions. If not, then we will continue to inform people about your auctions when they pop up.

..Al


Posts: 2880 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
smf_4ever
Atari Fan

Member # 485

posted 04-24-2002 12:34 PM     Profile for smf_4ever   Email smf_4ever     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Albert:
It is not the bidder's responsibility to have to ask, "Is this a real cartridge or a copy?" If you are sincere in not wanting to mislead people then hopefully you will add this missing information to your future auctions. If not, then we will continue to inform people about your auctions when they pop up.

..Al



Posts: 13 | From: | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged

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