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INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Mon,  4 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue 752
 
Today's Topics:
                        A few random thoughts
                             Doesn't work
                         Drachen and Mah-Jong
                      FORM, nice but... (2 msgs)
                           GCR vs. Mac Plus
                     INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #727
                       LaserPrinters and the ST
                                 LNYX
                           Mono Games??????
                       NOTATOR vs. FINALE (mac)
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Date: 4 Dec 89 15:28:51 GMT
From: att!watmath!ria!uwovax!4224_5132@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Andrew Semple)
Subject: A few random thoughts
Message-ID: <4448.257a46e4@uwovax.uwo.ca>
 
 covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) spews,
 
> You know Ken, that is ONE reason why I refuse to buy the new TT. If you can't
> even upgrade a Mega ST2 to 4 megs because of some manufacturing decision to
> save 10 cents by using a MMU chip that can't address 4 megs, then what does
> that tell me about Atari?? It is INSANE to sell a Mega ST2 that is crippled
> so that it can't be upgraded to 4 megs. That is another example of Atari's
> No Upgrade Policy. Why do you folks do that??
>
> And are you folks going to change this policy with regards to the TT/p? Or
> if I want to add more memory after I purchase a TT/P will I have to sell
> it and buy another TT/p with more memory??
>
  The above statement about the ST2 not being able to be expanded to 4 Megs
is absolute CRAP.  I know of about 20 ST2's that have been expanded to 4 Megs.
 
  To Richard directly:  Please have the guts to flame me by mail, don't waste
space here!
 
> Oh well, life goes on.
 
  I guess it does ...
 
  I was recently in one of my local (non-authorized) Atari dealers when I
noticed that he had an Atari product called VT100 Emulator.  It was a cart
that you plugged in so your screen resembled those old VT100 terminals that
astronomy people use :-).  Has anyone used it.  It was only 10$ so I might
go back and purchase it just fo rthe heck of it.  Do I have to be hardwired to
the system I want to use, or can I use Flash! or something.
 
  In speaking about Flash!, I would like to ask the authors of Shadow if they
consulted the authors of Flash! before or during the construction of thier fine
program.  No flames here, just interested in the development process.
 
  Finally, I would like to share a bedtime story with y'all.  The same
un-authorized Atari dealer I mentioned above, warned me that they might soon
be ending thier (limited) Atari support.  "Not selling enough units", he said.
It should be mentioned here that he also sells PC's and Amiga's.
 
  "How many ST's did you sell last month", I said?
 
  "Oh, about (pause), twenty", he said.
 
  "And how many PC's in that peroid", I enquired?
 
  "(Long pause, and a search of the records), one", he admitted.
 
  "Hmmm", I grined.  "And how many Sega game systems"?
 
  "(Easy one I guess), Ten in the last week", he blurted.
 
  Conclusions;  there is no doubt that this dealer has low prices, but he is
only interested in the quick sale.  If you could see his store you would see
racks and racks of games for the Amiga, ST, Mac(?), and PC's.  Atari people
are smart enough to buy at the lowest price, but go to the authorized dealer
for their software support, games for the ST just aren't cutting it for this
guy.  I mean save for a few wordprocessors and this VT100 emulator (which was
a mile deep in dust), he has games.  My point?  Don't underestimate the need
for serious support in software for the Atari user.  The authorized dealer
can't keep Calamus in stock, this other guy hasn't even heard of it...
 
  Graduate of the Linda Ellerbee school of journalism...
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Semple                               ads@hydra.uwo.ca
2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science      Andrew.Semple@hydra.uwo.ca
The University of Western Ontario           Semple@uwovax.BITNET
London, Ontario
Canada     "I think in the predicate calculus."   - I. Newton :-)
 
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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 22:47 EST
From: V053QHYX@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: Doesn't work
 
Add to the list of programs that dont work with tos 1.4 :
DBMAN 5.02 and Timeworks destop publisher....
 
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Date: Tue,  5 Dec 89  00:20:24 EDT
From: BAILEYS%FSU.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Drachen and Mah-Jong
Message-ID: <891205001533507.GXJT@RAI.CC.FSU.EDU> (UMass-Mailer 4.04)
 
In reply to:
 
 
>I agree, Drachen is great!  One question, though:  I thought Shanghai was
>an implementation of Mah-Jong?  Is it really just a variant of `Drachen' in
>colour?
>- David
>(forster@cs.umass.edu / forster@umass.bitnet / david%cousteau@cs.umass.edu)
 
Well, Shanghai and Drachen both use the same game space and rules, so they
are identical simulations of something, but I don't think it is really
Maj-Jong.  I believe 'real' Maj-Jong has more tiles, but I am not sure.
Being a big Shanghai/Drachen player, I would certainly like to know for sure,
so are there any Maj-Jong players out there?  Fill us in!!
 
Oh, by the way, Shanghai works in mono too, but is even harder to play than
in color (which is saying something).
 
 
___________________________________________________________________________
                             
      Bob Marley               "To err is human, to compute devine,
                                  trust your computer, but not it's
      FSU Comp Sci                  programmer."  - Moris Kingston -
                             
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 4 Dec 89 21:28:59 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!jhunix!esp_05@
 tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Stdnt 05)
Subject: FORM, nice but...
Message-ID: <3511@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>
 
A note on inclusive speech: "s/he," "he or she," "they," et al when
referring to a single person of ambiguous sex are all incorrect in
standard American English.  I don't make the rules, I just quote them.
Actually, I support them, as "he" is much less awkward than stylistic
variants.  There are some specialized styles, such as the American
Psychological Association, which insist on "he or she," but otherwise
this is incorrect.
 
And I don't think that these documents should require any TeX
knowledge at all, aka a normal ASCII text version should also be
included, as TeX really does require quite a bit of mastery, and uses
quite a bit of computer resources.
 
Eric
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 4 Dec 89 17:13:38 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%p
 anarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Steven Grimm)
Subject: FORM, nice but...
Message-ID: <34894@grapevine.uucp>
 
In article <1103891319123100@thelake.UUCP> pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve
 writes:
>Demanding that ANY written material be "politically correct" in the mind
>of every reader is impossible.
 
I thought that request was a bit odd, too.  I assume (I can't read the docs
either; more below) that the original poster was objecting to the use of the
genderless "he."  Well, whether he likes it or not, that's the way English
is.  Substituting "he/she" (or "she/he") all over the place isn't a good
solution.
 
>I have a different problem with the Form documentation: TeX. Seriously, is
>a 430-kilobyte DVI file an efficient method of distributing docs?
>Especially since the number of STs actually running TeX is mighty small.
 
Heck, I couldn't even print the thing out on my Sun.  Distributing straight
TeX documentation would be fine, as the TeX source is at least very human-
readable, but DVI struck me as a bit silly as well.  (If you're wondering
why I posted it anyway, I have a hands-off policy about that sort of thing.)
If someone has the software to convert the thing into PostScript, please
mail me a copy.  I don't have time to set up all the TeX stuff on my machine,
and as Sun is a *roff house, nobody around me has it already.
 
>On a (sort of) related subject, does anybody else find the shar'ed source
>code in comp.sources.atari.st to be a constant source of trouble?
>UUDecoding a .ZOO file
>is *so* much simpler.
 
When I started moderating comp.sources.atari.st, I put all the sources in
uuencoded arcfiles (check the early volume 1 entries on panarthea).  I got
about twenty complaints from people at various sites, demanding that I
use shar instead for various reasons.  Since that seemed to be what the
public wanted, I switched over.  Frankly, shar is often more of a pain for
me, too, as (posting rules notwithstanding) sources are frequently sent to
me as arc or zoo files, which I have to repack as sharfiles.  (Such sources
tend to sit in my queue for a while.)
 
What do people think?  Should I switch back to uue'd sources?
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
sgrimm@sun.com          ...!sun!sgrimm
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 20:26:09 MST
From: ehsnsr@jupiter.nmt.edu (Eric Hobbs)
Subject: GCR vs. Mac Plus
Message-ID: <8912050326.AA10234@jupiter.nmt.edu>
 
Hi. Me again.
 
       I have heard in circles that the Spectre GCR is faster than a 8MHz Mac
Plus. Just how much faster is faster? I you can, maybe you could give me some
benchmarks for comparison. Thanxs.
 
       Also, I am thinking of trading my 520STfm up to an STE. I would like to
keep my Mono monitor even though it shuts me out of some neat stuff. I know
it has probably been posted before, but what are the improvements in the
graphics on an STE? If the improvements are mostly just with colors, I'll keep
the MONOmonitor. I really want 1meg, a DS/DD, and cool sound, so it sounds like
the STE might be for me? BTW, How much does a STE cost?
 
Eric Hobbs
ehsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
 
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Date: 4 Dec 89 16:35:35 GMT
From: att!drutx!druwy!dlm@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dan Moore)
Subject: INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #727
Message-ID: <4474@druwy.ATT.COM>
 
in article <8912010818.AA04783@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, AKISUJAR@NUSVM.BITNET
("S.Sujarittanonta") says:
> REF: Spectre and AppleTalk
> I do not know what make it so difficult for Dave to make his Spectre
> works with AppleTalk. I am not a 'Software man' [...]
 
        There is a real simple reason that the ST Mac emulators
(Spectre, Magic Sac, and Aladin) don't support Appletalk, lack of
proper hardware.  Appletalk runs at 230,000 baud, the ST does not have
a synchronous serial port that runs that fast.  Without hardware
support what is the point in working on the software support?
 
        On several occasions Dave Small has said he will support
Appletalk when there is hardware available to connect it.  In the last
4 years at least 6 companies have either privately or publicly
announced they were going to build Appletalk hardware, none of them
have ever released any hardware.  Most of them decided to drop the
project since they didn't expect it to make enough money to pay back
the R&D expenses.  A couple of them may still be working on it.
 
 
                        Dan Moore
                        AT&T Bell Labs
                        Denver
                        dlm@druwy.ATT.COM
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 03:40:46 GMT
From: matthews@umd5.umd.edu  (Mike Matthews)
Subject: LaserPrinters and the ST
Message-ID: <5726@umd5.umd.edu>
 
In article <12513@watcgl.waterloo.edu> sfwhite@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Stephen
 White) writes:
>If you really want this to happen, talk to Adobe.  As far as I know,
>the major cost of _any_ PostScript-compatible device or software is
>the royalty paid to Adobe for developing PS.  Thus, UltraScript is
>not likely to drop in price.  Can anyone confirm this?
>--
>        ___             Stephen F. White, esq.     standard_disclaimer()
 
I seem to remember something about Adobe putting PostScript into the public
domain in an effort to retain control of the market due to stiff competition.
If this is true (can anybody confirm this?), wouldn't that reduce the price of
royalties to, like, zero?
 
I'm not sure if UltraScript even had to get a license for PostScript.  It can
be argued either way.
 
Mike
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 02:58:19 GMT
From: sunybcs!fredonia!sale5312@rutgers.edu  (Marty Saletta)
Subject: LNYX
Message-ID: <1693@fredonia.UUCP>
 
In article <8912020824.AA28364@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
 V053QHYX@UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU writes:
>During an INTERESTING flight from BUffalo NY to NYC I opened up
>the airlines(yes I hadto go on a few different airlines..!) On PAN AM in
>their magazine their is an add for the portfolio!actually a 2 page add!
>Didnt look like something atari would do..It Actually Looked Professional!!
>and guess what?!On my Continental flight their was also an add in their paper!
>   Jeremy
 
 
 
  I've noticed that no one (at least that I've seen) has mentioned their
ad in the Wall Street Journal for the Portfolio.  I saw one earlier
(maybe September/October) which looked impressive.  I like to see
Atari spread their name in ads *outside* the Atari world.  Ads
in ST-Log and STart) don't make much sense since most of the
readers should already own an ST or whatever.  Let others know
about Atari!
 
 -Marty
 
 
 
--
Marty Saletta                         The above has been in a mayonnaise jar on
Fredonia State University           Funk and Wagnalls porch since noon today...
Fredonia, New York                                 Maple Leafs:24 pts,4th place
UUCP:...?rutgers,ucbvax?!sunybcs!fredonia!sale5312                    Hi Lorie!
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 20:13:13 MST
From: ehsnsr@jupiter.nmt.edu (Eric Hobbs)
Subject: Mono Games??????
Message-ID: <8912050313.AA09834@jupiter.nmt.edu>
 
Hey Peoples,
 
     Can anyone out there in net land give me a list of good PD games that can
run in monochrome? Oh, BTW, tell me where I can get them.
 
Thanx.
 
Eric Hobbs
ehsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 03:02:19 GMT
From: agate!codon2.berkeley.edu!ladasky@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (John Ladasky;1021
 Solano No. 2;528-8666)
Subject: NOTATOR vs. FINALE (mac)
Message-ID: <1989Dec5.030219.3596@agate.berkeley.edu>
 
In article <1989Dec4.213025.14837@agate.berkeley.edu>
laba-1aj@web-1d (John Kawakami) writes:
 
[stuff about printing speed of NOTATOR deleted]
 
>I realize this is probably not the right forum for this, but here goes:
>    Over and over, I read people who point out how  s l o w  PS is.
>Sometimes, they are justified; PS is pretty slow if it has too little RAM,
>a very complex image, bad code, etc.  But usually, people blame postscript
>when the program generating the postscript is at fault.
 
        When I got into the scoring business, the only Atari notation package
around that generated PostScript files and could read MIDI files was Dr. T.'s
COPYIST.  I can tell you this much:  COPYIST generates about 250k of data
per page.  The Sonata font (which, I'm sorry to say, is more aesthetically
pleasing than any of the Atari laser fonts I've seen) is another 75k.  I print
my files out from my UNIX account, and they take about 10 minutes per page.
One thing that I have noticed is that pages with lots of slurs (which cannot,
I would imagine, be implemented by characters of the Sonata font) take up
considerably more memory than those without them.
 
>    Now, I don't know anything about Finale, but I don't think something
>as simple as a page of music should take more than a few minutes to print
>(yes, that _is_ slower than the SLM; heh heh).  I suspect Finale is doing
>one of two things: producing ugly, horrendous PS; or letting the printer
>figure out how the page should be set and giving it just enough info to
>let it grind the page out.  I'd bet my mother that it's the former.
>
 
        I'm almost certain that my files are being transferred to the printer
by something niftier than the 9600-baud serial port that I've seen - and it
still takes 10 minutes.  I've archived a few of my PostScript files and they
tend to compress by a factor of FOUR or FIVE.  This suggests that there is a
fair amount of verbosity or redundancy in PostScript.  Sure, it's great to
be able to read the stuff, but someone should consider the fact that a
protocol for the transfer of a ters, more compressed version of PostScript
would speed things up quite a bit.  I'm not sure how inelegant the COPYIST
PostScript code is, but my guess is that it's not all that bad.  At least,
it's about as ugly as the code that the FINALE user seems to be generating.
 
T CROSS POLICE LINE DO NOT CROSS POLICE LINE DO NOT CROSS POLICE LINE DO NOT CR
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Do unto others as you would like                      - John J. Ladasky ("ii")
 to do unto them. " Richard Bach                  (ladasky@enzyme.berkeley.edu)
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #752
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