INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Tue,  1 May 90       Volume 90 : Issue  498
 
Today's Topics:
                       Atari ST(E) Information
          Bob Brodie in Rochester (mini-review), and TT talk
                      Printing with Spectre Gcr
                      STE TOS / TOS 1.4/1.6 etc.
                             Unix Windows
                   What about the Pittsburgh Show?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Apr 90 23:15:26 GMT
From: snorkelwacker!bu.edu!dartvax!anselm!jclamy@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Jonathan Lamy )
Subject: Atari ST(E) Information
Message-ID: <425@anselm.UUCP>
 
Could anyone give me some information about the following questions:
 
1)  What is the difference between the Atari ST and the "newer"
    Atari STE ?
 
2)  Can a 520 ST be upgraded to STE specs ?
 
3)  How is the Atari ST doing in the computer marketplace (O.K., this
    is a relative question - but I ask it because I have heard that
    some major software companies were slowing the development of
    their software for the ST because of lagging ST sales worldwide.) ?
 
4)  How is the ST competing (saleswise) with the Amiga worldwide ?
 
          Thanks in advance for your help !!
 
 
                   Jonathan Lamy
                   Saint Anselm College
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Apr 90 13:43:09 GMT
From: chinet!saj@gargoyle.uchicago.edu  (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: Bob Brodie in Rochester (mini-review), and TT talk
Message-ID: <1990Apr30.134309.11048@chinet.chi.il.us>
 
In the article this is responding to, Bob Brodie is said to have stated that
the TT passed FCC approval (yeah, that would mean the TTp, and class A, but
still...).  I hope someone from Atari will brag a bit more to us if this
is true.  If it's true, what configuration--memory, video hardware, etc?
                                     Steve J.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 1 May 90 02:36:09 GMT
From: umigw!umiami!dnd15j9z@handies.ucar.edu  (Frank Rachel)
Subject: Printing with Spectre Gcr
Message-ID: <6280.263cbdd9@umiami.miami.edu>
 
I would like to know if I would be able to print a document, using
different size fonts, graphics, and all the other goodies available
on Mac word processors (microsoft word or wordperfect), using the
Spectre gcr emulator, and a panasonic kx-p1090 printer.
 
Are there printer drivers for different printers, etc.. if so which ones
and so on..
 
please email to me..
 
-Frank Rachel
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Apr 90 18:30:45 GMT
From: pyramid!infmx!robert@hplabs.hp.com  (Robert Coleman)
Subject: STE TOS / TOS 1.4/1.6 etc.
Message-ID: <4119@infmx.UUCP>
 
In article <2180@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) writes:
>
>> In article <2178@atari.UUCP| apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>
>>> I don't think it's wise to publish what you learned from the ROMs.
>>> [I go on to show "the inherent weakness of this kind of analysis."]
>
>> This is ridiculous. There may be inherent *legalities* about
>> publishing a dismantled ROM, but there is no "inherent weakness"
>> in this kind of analysis. It is merely very difficult.
>
>
>You *will* learn things which just happen to be true, but which aren't
>guaranteed.  You will learn that calling the BIOS with an invalid
>function number returns different things depending on the number.  You
>will learn the addresses and uses of variables and data structures.
>It's not a secret, it's just that we need to be free to change those
>things in the future.  If your program relies on something stupid and
>becomes popular, we could get stuck with a feature we don't like, a
>feature YOU don't like and didn't realize was outside the "rules" for
>well-behaved programs.
>
 
        You know, I understand what Atari is trying to do with the
marketing policy of providing detailed info with an additional purchase.
Other computers, costing much more, offer detailed information freely,
but it's payed for in the price of the initial purchase. This means that
users who want to do nothing but play with a spreadsheet are forced to pay
for information that they will never use.
        The alternative marketing strategy is to charge for each piece that
a user wants, meaning that the user can purchase *exactly* what they want,
and is not charged for things that they will never use. I rather like this
policy, though it leads to a "hidden cost" feeling if the fact that the
whole system is available in "pieces" is not well advertised. This is where
part of the resentment you read on the net is generated; the other part is
from people who view the cup as half empty instead of partially full.
 
        I really don't think people should be complaining about the extra
cost, except where they where mislead into believing they were purchasing
all that they needed when they purchased their computer.
 
        HOWEVER:
 
        It's equally silly for Atari or representatives thereof to complain
about people disassembling ROMs, publishing incorrect or incomplete
information, or programming outside the "rules".
        In an ideal world for Atari, you could *enforce* rules that would
avoid your "getting stuck with a feature we don't like, a feature YOU don't
like" etc.; this would mean a central location controlling the product,
which sounds like a good idea. However, in actuallity, you have no way to
enforce the following of the rules. When you are powerless in some area, you
have to come up with some way to persuade people to do what you want, even
though they might not like it. You have to make it clearly in *their* best
interest to do what you want; not clearly in *your* best interest, or
clearly in the best interest for *everyone else*, but clearly in *their*
best interest.
        Frankly, it is no one's best interest to spend lots of money they
haven't got (or desire to spend on higher priority items) to get information
that they can come by in other ways. You have to completely ignore human
nature to expect people to pay *you* to get rules that they *you* want them
to obey. Yes, in the long run, it`s to the programmer's advantage; Atari may
change the OS, making the program in question unusable. However, this is a
long-term consideration, weighed against the short-term consideration of $$;
which consideration is likely to win? You may have noticed that even
corporations such as Atari have been known to focus in on the short-term,
ignoring the long-term disadvantages...;-)
 
        It's a tradeoff. Atari's marketing strategy makes sense in many ways;
a completely *predictable* result is that people will generate their own
information, some of it incorrect, and you may be stuck with the result.
 
        The only way to encourage people to follow the rules that Atari
desires to be followed is to make the information cheap or free. If Atari, in
weighing the advantages and disadvantages of their marketing policy, decides
that losing total control over the OS (or facing the public outcry when Atari
changes the OS and programs which did not follow the rules suddenly fail), is
too hard to bear, the only thing to do is to stop aiming at their own foot. If
Atari determines that the current marketing strategy has more advantages than
disadvantages, then they should maintain the status quo, and fondly bid the
little toe goodbye.
 
        It sounds silly to me to hear someone righteously saying, "No, no,
that's the *wrong* way to do it, it could hurt me later, but you have to
pay *me* to find out the why *I* want you to do it". If Atari wants me to do
it their way, they need to show me that they've made some effort to make it
easy for me to do it that way, or that they are at the very least willing to
meet me half-way (hundreds of dollars does not strike me as "half-way").
Otherwise, Atari reminds me of some of the street people in New York, railing
away to the heavens, while all around them people are quietly, and pointedly,
not listening.
 
        The choice is Atari's. Having made an informed choice, it should be
prepared to bear the consequences. Hopefully, Atari has made the best choice.
 
Robert C.
--
"Helen's the only one who knows what scruples are, and she won't tell us"
John said. "Have we got scruples about it, Helen?"
"Not a trace," Helen affirmed.          -The Reefs of Earth, R.A.Lafferty
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 1 May 90 00:49:06 GMT
From: mgh-znmr!mike@husc6.harvard.edu  (Mike Vevea)
Subject: Unix Windows
Message-ID: <2742@husc6.harvard.edu>
 
A couple of recent messages have mentioned problems with uw.  For what
it's worth, I've been using it heavily for several years, with few problems.
(I occasionally use UniTerm if I want Kermit or one of the *modem protocols,
and I occasionally have problems if I accidentally get tangled up, so that
Unix thinks I'm running with windows, and I don't, but other than that,
I like it.)
 
For what it's worth, I'm running an old version (the latest dates I can find
on the UNIX end sources are 1985; the ST end is just binaries, but date from
about the same time.)  My binaries match those available from the archives.
The main thing I can see that is different between my installation and those
described is that I run with a true mono monitor, not the emulation software.
 
Mike Vevea
mikeV (mike@mgh-znmr.harvard.edu)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 90 21:58 EST
From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV
Subject: What about the Pittsburgh Show?
 
     There is word on GEnie that the PACE show in Pittsburgh had some serious
problems.  Attendance was said to be low, software sales were abysmal, and
the notorious Elite group infuriated people like Nathan Potechin and Bob
Brodie.
        Is there anyone out there in netland who has firsthand experience?
 
JOHN Barnes
JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V90 Issue #498
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