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INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Mon, 25 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  859
 
Today's Topics:
                          Chaos Strikes Back
                      Chaos strikes back querry
            Copyrights and Commercial Networks and Usenet
                     GEnie uplink is shut down..
    Original D.M. help needed (was Re: Chaos strikes back querry)
                  USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
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Date: 25 Dec 89 15:21:20 GMT
From: samsung!rex!uflorida!beach.cis.ufl.edu!cr1@think.com  (Christopher Roth)
Subject: Chaos Strikes Back
Message-ID: <21570@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>
 
Hello World.
 
A question about Chaos Strikes Back.  I was under the impression that
you were to get a piece of that metal (corbite, was that how it was
spelled?) from each section of the dungeon (figher, ninja, wizard,
priest).  Now, I am in the fighter level and I think I've covered
everthing except for this one locked door that the hints insist is
opened by this opal key.  I can find no key hole. NONE!  I am going
nutso trying to figure it out.  To give you a point of reference, this
is just after that room with all those little guys in it that look
like dwarves or something out of Star Wars.
 
As a side note, partially concerning this Genie thing, I am sure while
there are a lot of people complaining about uplink, we all realize
how valuable David Small is to the ST community.  Three Cheers.
 
 
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*     Christoper Roth                         *  "Machines have no
*     InterNet  :  cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu      *   Conscience..."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Post No Bills-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
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Date: 25 Dec 89 04:41:40 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@apple.com
Subject: Chaos strikes back querry
Message-ID: <25347@cup.portal.com>
 
Marcelino Bernardo asked about a "bug" that had been reported in "Chaos
Strikes Back", the sequel to Dungeon Master...
 
I'd meant to reply to the original message which reported this "bug", but
unfortunately didn't have time, at the time...
 
The "bug" involved the apparent inability to use Fireballs at a certain
location in the Dungeon, specifically at the top of a staircase, while facing
hordes of nasty blue "Ant-Men"...
 
Definately NOT a bug...  what's happening is that the first "square" at the
top of the stairs contains a "spinner" which only affects thrown magic, like
fireballs and poison missiles.  If you hurl a MON fireball, you'll be able
to hear it explode somewhere off to the left where it's reflected.
 
This forces you to use your weapons against the first group of four Ant-Men,
then IMMEDIATELY move forward onto that space.  (If you don't move quickly,
the next group of Ant-Men will occupy the space, and you're stuck in the
same situation as before)  THEN you can use your magical missile weapons
with their normal terrible effect...
 
There are many such "invisible" spinners in Chaos Strikes Back... just anothe
example of the added challenge the sequel brings to the game...!
 
BobR
 
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Date: 25 Dec 89 08:26:35 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@apple.com
Subject: Copyrights and Commercial Networks and Usenet
Message-ID: <25356@cup.portal.com>
 
Sigh... I was hoping someone else would tackle this one...
 
The information provided by Dianne Barlow Close' coorespondent, Richard
Kelsch was very good, and goes right to the heart of the matter..
 
Unfortunately, it was interpreted slightly wrongly..
 
First of all, the correct term is "Compilation Copyright".
 
This is the way you protect a new collection of existing works, such as
a collection of stories, sheet music, artwork, whatever... including
"Newsnet" messages.
 
The works within the compilation may already be covered by copyright, or
they may be in the Public Domain.  The Compilation Copyright applies only
to the collection, not to the individual works.
 
Thus, while Beethoven's music is in the Public Domain, you could NOT copy
the sheet music that appears in a newly printed book which is covered by
a Compilation Copyright.
 
Every time you sign onto GEnie (or CompuServe or Delphi or any of the other
commercial information services), you see a (C)opyright notice.  You may
never notice it, or pay any attention to it, but what it's saying is that
everything that appears on your screen from that point on until you
disconnect, belongs to GEnie and may NOT be copied.  That includes Public
Domain programs that have been uploaded to their databases, messages from
other users, transcripts of conferences, *everything*.
 
Now, here's what most people don't understand... GEnie is NOT saying that
they own a copyright on, say, Charles F. Johnson's PINHEAD program, which
he released as shareware..  they ARE saying that they own the COPY that
appears on GEnie, under their "Compilation Copyright" and that you may NOT
copy it and pass it on anywhere else.  If you get a copy from Charles, fine..
you can upload it anywhere you please, but not the copy you get from GEnie.
 
Pretty silly, right..?  How can they tell the difference between the two?
Obviously they can't, and in all practicality the compilation copyright
is practically unenforcable.  CompuServe found that out when they
threatened some BBS operators who were stupid enough to publicize that they
had the "latest from CompuServe" in their downloads.  Where the GEnie copyrig
would be enforcable would be material which obviously originated on the
service in the first place.
 
So, yes, GEnie is claiming a copyright over your UseNet messages which appear
on GEnie, and no, it has no practical effect on anything.
 
A side note, Dave Small would be bearing the brunt of ANY legal actions.
Because of the fine print in their contracts, GEnie practically CANNOT be
sued for anything.  The individual little guys have to pay it all.
 
BobR
 
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Date: 25 Dec 89 08:43:30 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@apple.com
Subject: GEnie uplink is shut down..
Message-ID: <25357@cup.portal.com>
 
Oh well..  my ST was down for surgery for a few days, and I see I've come
in late, so everyone ignore my previous few postings on the subject (I'm
sure you will)...
 
What I'm surprised that no one has suggested throughout all of this is that
GEnie just bite the bullet and become a UseNet site.  Portal has been
mentioned several times in the discussion, but Portal is a paying member
of UseNet and has full two-way access.   The way GEnie was doing it was
by getting in "the backdoor", for free.
 
There would be no "flood" of GEnie material, as only messages specifically
posted to UseNet (as with Portal) would appear on the newsgroups.
 
However, it would take money to set up as a UseNet site, and it would take
software to handle the newsgroup feeds.  That would take a bit more selling
than just offering them something for free.
 
BobR
 
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Date: 25 Dec 89 17:56:51 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!mrsvr.UUCP!jupiter.uucp!krieg@think.com
 (Andrew Krieg)
Subject: Original D.M. help needed (was Re: Chaos strikes back querry)
Message-ID: <1763@mrsvr.UUCP>
 
I'm still working my way through the original dungeon and have a request for
help.  I am on level 7, just past the place where you find the Vorpal Blade.
I am in a locked corridor with 3 doors.  One of them I opened with magic, but
a transporter keeps me from entering it.  I have been told that if my players
drop enough equipment, they can run fast enough to avoid the transporter.  I
have not been able to do this.  I have my guys down to about 9 lbs of stuff
each, and they still can't make it.  The real bad news is I am experiencing a
bug that prevents me from dropping any more equipment.  When I drop another
piece, that game hangs.  Is this a documented bug?
 
I do have several save disks, back further in the game.  Is their a limit to
the number of objects in a room?  Can I drop stuff further back and then
retrieve it later?  Am I f**ked?
 
Any help gladly received!!
 
--
=========================================================================
=       Andrew Krieg                            The Marvel Historian    =
=               G.E. Medical Systems - CT - New Berlin, WI              =
=                    USENET: krieg@jupiter.med.ge.com                   =
=========================================================================
=  "Maybe Christmas," he thought, "doesn't come from store."            =
=  "Maybe Christmas...perhaps...means a little bit more!" - The Grinch  =
=========================================================================
 
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Date: 25 Dec 89 06:41:06 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@apple.com
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <25354@cup.portal.com>
 
(Sorry, Dave.. you knew I'd have to have something to say, right...?)
 
My feelings about a one-way GEnie link to UseNet..?
 
UseNet is UseNet, and GEnie is GEnie...  one has a reputation for being
a technically oriented, well informed source of information, and the other
has let its reputation slide to being a "K-Mart" for cheap downloads.
 
Even if it was CIS or BIX who was involved, everyone here has to realize that
a commercial venture will now be making money from every article, message
and comment you may post here, without giving anything in return.
 
Of course the GEnie management has been receptive..!  While Dave may not
make any money from the deal, remember that $5.40 of every hours reading
of your messages goes directly into the pockets of people like Neil Harris
and Bill Louden (gaak).   And naturally, under their "compilation copyright,"
they aren't going to allow anything to flow the other way, even if it wasn't
for the load that would impose on the network.
 
If you want UseNet style information, come to UseNet... if you want
<giggle> <tee hee>, go to GEnie...
 
BobR
 
(sorry... no offense intended toward K-Mart...)
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #859
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