=========================================================================
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Thu, 21 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  843
 
Today's Topics:
                 Facts, not only talking about them.
                            Genie--Usenet
                       Improving this newsgroup
                       Posting problems solved
                            Usenet-->GEnie
             USENET -> GEnie uplink now working (4 msgs)
                  v03INF3: Change to posting format
              Wanted: GEM .IMG file conversion software
                      Where did the binaries go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Dec 89 08:04:09 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.
 ohio-state.edu  (Steven Grimm)
Subject: Facts, not only talking about them.
Message-ID: <34959@grapevine.uucp>
 
In article <1888@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>Ralph Haglund, please don't do that again.  You are posting information
>from Atari developer documentation, which is both copyright by Atari
>and released under nondisclosure agreements to Atari developers.
 
I believe the original article said that it was a translation of something
from a German ST magazine.  If that's true, it's the magazine that deserves
the lashing, and not Ralph.  He never signed a nondisclosure agreement with
the magazine or (presumably) with Atari.
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
koreth@ebay.sun.com     ...!sun!ebay!koreth
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 10:56:00 EST
From: "Gerry Greenberg: 315-443-5378"
 <MAXG%SUVM.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Genie--Usenet
 
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but since others are, I
thought I might as well, too.  I agree with those who have stated that
the one way direction of info from Usenet to Genie is not fair.  There
is a two way mail capability with Compuserv and with MCI Mail, why
shouldn't there be a two way capability with Genie...if they want it to
be just for mail, fine...if they want to get more than just that, then
they should give more, too.
The thing is--I like Genie.  I gave up my Compuserv membership when they
instituted a monthly charge (that really made me mad, considering they
had enlisted my help previously to write to the Congress and voice my
objection to an "access" charge...then after Congress did not impose an
access charge, they went and instituted what was essentially an access
charge to me, only they get to pocket all the $$s!), but it is much to
their credit that they allow a two-way exchange of mail.  I hope that
anything done with Genie will be a "two-way street" as well!
---Gerry
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 10:40:45 EST
From: Marcelino Bernardo <MBERNAR%ERENJ.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Improving this newsgroup
 
JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV expressed some opinions about the future of this
newsgroup which I mostly agree with.  There are a few statements, however,
which I don't agree with based on my own limited experience.
 
"I note that many of the questions that are asked here (at considerable
 expense, I might note) have been answered in the magazines."
 
I've found the magazines that are/were
available in my area: STart, ST Log, STXpress and Atari Explorer are seriously
lacking in technical information (I would exclude Dave Small's
column in STart).  Coverage of Public Domain and Shareware is inadequate.
I've seen a letter to STart asking for a terminal emulation software
for a Tektronix 4010 terminal go unanswered when Uniterm has existed for years.
 
 
"It appears that there is a tendency to post the burning question of
 the moment to the net when a little research in a library would yield
 a quicker and sounder ouutcome.  Magazines like Current Notes and ST
 Informer, and to some extent z-Mag and ST REports, have solid
 technical information that is more useful than some of the spur of the
 moment responses that get passed around here...."
 
I have not yet found a library in my area (New Jersey) that has any of
the ST magazines you mentioned.  I can't even find one ST book in a
library or a bookstore.  Under the circumstances, this net is the best
place that I expect to get informed answers to technical questions.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Dec 89 16:15:05 GMT
From:
 pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!sun-
 barr!newstop!panarthea.ebay.sun.com!koreth@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Steven
 Grimm)
Subject: Posting problems solved
Message-ID: <5813@newstop.EBay.Sun.COM>
 
Well, it seems that the problem with comp.binaries.atari.st was due to my
local news server (grapevine), which I've just fixed.  I'll be reposting
everything from MAS forward.  (And likewise for comp.sources.atari.st.)
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
koreth@ebay.sun.com     ...!sun!ebay!koreth
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Dec 89 13:46:41 GMT
From: rochester!rit!ultb!rcc9885@rutgers.edu  (R.C. Costello)
Subject: Usenet-->GEnie
Message-ID: <1816@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
 
In article <12486@cbnews.ATT.COM> nrc@cbnews.ATT.COM (neal.r.caldwell..ii)
 writes:
>
>I agree whole heartedly!  This arrangement puts money into GEnie and
>does the net absolutely no good.  Dave, you've done a lot of good things
>for the Atari community but please put a stop to this before it goes any
>further.
>
 
I think you are looking at this the wrong way!!  So what if GEnie is
a profit orientented business.  If you want to put up you own UUCP
site its going to cost you $$$.  You would most likely then pass this
charge on to anyone who uses your system.  They get USENET out of the
deal and you get money for up-keep.
 
Why is it that everyone has to get something from something.  Why can't
you except the fact that this link will give you the ability to Email
to MANY MANY more people.  In turn, they get to read comp.sys.atari.st,
where all the techie stuff is (ha! :) )
 
I don't see how effects anyone single person in anyway other than allowing them
a wider communication area.  Now I will be able to send mail to a friends
in Cape Cod and Connecticut FREE of CHARGE for me.  Of course they have to
pay, but oh well.  I don't see how you can look at this link any different
than the link you are using.
 
The only thing I would change is allow them to post to USENET, maybe mail
to some spooler that will post the message instead of mailing it..
 
I've been QUIETLY reading USENET for 2 1/2 years now, and have found it not
to be as HIGH tech (ST gurus) as its made out to be.  I have found it
to be a GREAT source of information however, but only becuase I have had
the ability to MAIL my questions to someone at DC Utilities (Thanks guys!) or
some on at Atari, and now, Dave Small.
 
I think you all just want something for nothing!
 
Dave, its a GREAT Idea, and I hope you get mail working SOON!
 
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Don't drive too slowly."                 Richard Caldwell
>                                          AT&T Network Systems
>                                          nrc@cbnews
>                                          att!cbnews!nrc
>                                          (614) 860-2206
 
 
+-----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Where Am I?   |X| "Of course I made a backup copy, actually I made two, the_|
+-----------------+--------+ first one was too light." - typical IBM user   |X|
| rcc9885@ultb.isc.rit.edu +--------------------------------------------------+
| rcc9885@ultb.edu        _|  | | |   Atari ST: The BIGGEST and FASTEST and   |
| rcc9885@ritvax.BITNET  |X|  | | |   most POWERFUL computer in the whole    _|
+--------------------------+ /  |  \  entire ...  Well, um, I still like it.|X|
| I don't work for anyone, +-------------------------------------------+------+
| so, it doesn' matter    _|  NOTE: Now if I could only have this many_|
| what I think.          |X|  windows open under GEM!                |X|
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 11:28:36 EST
From: Marcelino Bernardo <MBERNAR%ERENJ.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
 
Here is my vote against the uplink.  It should be two-way or none at all.
 
Regards,
Marcelino Bernardo
mbernar@erenj.bitnet
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 00:58:17 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!kore
 th%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Steven Grimm)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <34975@grapevine.uucp>
 
In article <935@crash.cts.com> canada@crash.cts.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes:
>I don't like Usenet being
>``raped'' to supply GEnie's commercial pockets.
 
I agree.  The only way I'd support this would be if someone would write a
quick newsgathering/reading program for the ST, and put it up in GEnie's
program section.  UUPC will mostly work as a base for this.  I bet most
GEnie subscribers won't be aware that they could be getting the USENET
messages for free.  Portal, at least, is inexpensive enough that it doesn't
make much difference, but trying to keep up with comp.sys.atari.st over
GEnie (especially in an area that only has a 1200-baud WhateverNetGEnieUses
link) could get quite expensive.
 
>If GEnie is that ``tapped
>out'' for knowledge that they are desperate enough to plunder Usenet, then
>perhaps GEnie should be disbanded.
 
Or make them carry rec.humor and talk.bizarre.
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
koreth@ebay.sun.com     ...!sun!ebay!koreth
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Dec 89 17:13:13 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!bmaraldo@tut.cis.ohio-stat
 e.edu  (Commander Brett Maraldo)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <457@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
 
        After giving this topic some serious thought, here is my opinion.
I agree with the previous poster who stated that we either have 2-way
communication with GEnie or nothing at all.  I think this would be fair,
where-as one-way communication is not fair at all.  If two-way communication
is not installed or the USENET->GEnie uplink isn't removed I'd be willing
to cast an official vote (what ever that means :-) against the uplink.
 
Brett L Maraldo
 
 
--
               --------     Unit 36 Research     ---------
                        "Alien Technology Today"
                      bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca
                   ?uunet!clyde!utai?!watserv1!bmaraldo
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 20:50:06 GMT
From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU  (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <1120891450065830@thelake.UUCP>
 
(In regard to the availability of Usenet postings on GEnie) ...
In article <935@crash.cts.com>,
     canada@crash.cts.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes ...
 
>Hmmm, I don't think this is very fair to the Usenet community, and I, for
>one, object to Usenet being used in such a commercial way.  I have no
>objection to two-way *mail* links, but I seriously object to all my
>postings appearing on GEnie or other commercial networks.  I think,
>perhaps, the Usenet ``etiquette'' gods may have something to say about all
>this as well.
 
An argument could be mounted that Usenet has no gods, only a handful of
people who occasionally lapse into delusions of godhood. :-) The best
description of Usenet that I have heard is "barely controlled chaos."
 
What is wrong with GEnie making the data available?
 
Is it that GEnie makes a profit? By far the majority of Usenet sites are
for-profit companies. Or at least they *try* to make a profit.
 
Is it that GEnie charges for access to the data? That standard would
equally condemn WELL, Portal and even Crash Timesharing (pnet01 charges
for access, according to the nixpub listing). And the universities
certainly tend to charge a pretty stiff tuition these days. So scratch
them, too.
 
Is it that GEnie somehow prevents free access to the data? Consider that
most corporate Usenet sites don't allow *any* public access. GE makes it
available to more people, not less.
 
>What I object to the most is the fact that the link is one way (and will
>stay that way due to GEnie's commercial nature).  I don't like Usenet being
>``raped'' to supply GEnie's commercial pockets.  If GEnie is that ``tapped
>out'' for knowledge that they are desperate enough to plunder Usenet, then
>perhaps GEnie should be disbanded.
 
Plunder is a pretty strong word. Usenet, as in "the community of users who
have agreed to freely share data," is not diminished. On the contrary, it
is GEnie that is at risk. As more people become aware of Usenet, they may
choose to patronize one of the many public-access Unix systems rather than
the controlled, centralized, regimented -- and commercial -- services.
 
--
   Steve Yelvington at the (frozen enough to skate!) lake in Minnesota
   UUCP: ... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Dec 89 20:07:42 GMT
From:
 usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@ucsd
 .edu  (Steven Grimm)
Subject: v03INF3: Change to posting format
Message-ID: <34935@grapevine.uucp>
 
The votes are in on changing from shar to uue-?zoo,arc? format, and the
uues have it.
 
I'll try to regularly (once per volume) post pointers to source code for
the various archiving and decoding programs, and make sure that they're
available on the panarthea archive.
 
Some notable comments:
 
>From: tim@brspyr1.brs.com (Tim Northrup)
>
>Both ZOO and ARC are now commonly available on Unix systems (much more so
>than when comp.sources.atari.st was started), so why bother with a shar
>file?
 
>From: Ron Abramson <rona@hpdml93.hp.com>
>
>It seems to me that if uuencoded arc files are good enough for
>comp.binaries.atari.st, then they ought to be good enough for
>comp.sources.atari.st
>
>I don't understand why a person (be it a he or she :??) should need
>to learn a new technique to retrieve source files.
 
>From: sluka@stoch.fmi.uni-passau.de (Bernd Sluka)
>
>I always un-shar your sources and repack them as arc- or zoo-archives
>on my sun before transfering them to the st via an PC-clone.
>So in my point of view it would be better to use uue'd arc- or zoo-files
>for the sources, too.
 
And one of the few dissenting votes,
 
>From: saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs)
>
>I like to keep sources in readable form.  What you might do is dictate a
>particular shar format, and provide tools to create and disassemble those
>files in the monthly posting.
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
koreth@ebay.sun.com     ...!sun!ebay!koreth
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Dec 89 12:19:11 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!greg@uunet.uu.net  (Greg Michaelson)
Subject: Wanted: GEM .IMG file conversion software
Message-ID: <3996@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk>
 
Does anyone have:
 
a) a definitive description of the GEM .IMG format?
   I have a description but it's inconsistent with what's actually
   in .IMG files.
 
b) software in C to convert .IMG files to bitmaps suitable for use
   with GEM object software?
 
Sorry if this has been requested before - I'm new to this group.
 
Greg Michaelson
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Dec 89 03:16:08 GMT
From:
 pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-
 barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Steven Grimm)
Subject: Where did the binaries go?
Message-ID: <34978@grapevine.uucp>
 
In article <103311@ti-csl.csc.ti.com> parker@vlsic2.vlsic2.ti.com (James Parker)
 writes:
>richard@jane.uh.edu writes:
>
>>Whappened to Comp.sys.atari.st? The last binary that I have received was
>>dated Oct. 4 1989. Is any one else having this problem or are the files
>>just not geeting through to this sight.
>I was just wondering myself. I haven't seen anything new in comp.binaries
>OR comp.sources.atari.st for what seems like months now.
 
Okay, there seem to be widespread distribution problems these days.  I have
no idea why.  If anyone HAS received the files listed below, please drop me
a line.  (I have the sneaking suspicion that the have-nots outnumber the
haves here, and I'd rather not be deluged with mail.)
 
This is the tail-end of the comp.binaries.atari.st archive index.
 
volume8/formdoc/part01          Documentation for FORM in ASCII
volume8/formdoc/part02
volume8/formdoc/part03
volume8/formdoc/part04
volume8/formdoc/part05
volume8/formdoc/part06
 
-- VOLUME 9 --
 
volume9/dhrystone               Dhrystone benchmark program
volume9/gemfst13/part01         AES and VDI bindings, v 1.3
volume9/gemfst13/part02
volume9/gemfst13/part03
volume9/quix                    Game: fill up the screen
volume9/cleo                    Enhance the TOS get-input-line routine
volume9/tostrace                Trace calls to TOS functions
volume9/tosvers                 Tell version of TOS
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #843
*****************************************
