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INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Wed, 20 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  837
 
Today's Topics:
                            dvi to 24 pin
                FLAMES and SUPPORT IN THE MINUS REALM
               How to know we are in TOS 1.0? -- thanks
                          The Rape of Usenet
                     Unexpandable megas (2 msgs)
                            Usenet-->GEnie
                      Where did the binaries go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 18:21:13 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!jarthur!dcrevier@tut.cis.ohio-stat
 e.edu  (Dan Crevier)
Subject: dvi to 24 pin
Message-ID: <3666@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
 
Is there dvi printer for 24 pin printers?  I have dvieps, but I am hoping
for better looking output.
 
Dan
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 89 11:56:23 EST
From: mb <MBERNAR%ERENJ.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: FLAMES and SUPPORT IN THE MINUS REALM
 
fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@apple.com mentioned that the ST
comes with ST Basic, Logo and documentation.  I don't think this is true
at the present.  When I bought my ST in April, it didn't come with Logo or
any manual for ST Basic.  It did come with a short list of ST Basic system
calls which is useless without the manual since the arguments are not
explained.  I'm not complaining.  I wouldn't have used them anyway (I prefer
compiled languages).  So why should I pay for it.  Besides, those people who
really want to use ST Basic can buy it.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 15:59:58 GMT
From: mcsun!inria!mirsa!crios.inria.fr!colas@uunet.uu.net  (Colas Nahaboo)
Subject: How to know we are in TOS 1.0? -- thanks
Message-ID: <453@mirsa.inria.fr>
 
First, thanks to everybody who pointed me to the good location:
        ((int *) _sysbase) + 1
 
But I want to issue a warning to US ST programmers:
 
In article <1903@atari.UUCP>, apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
> romdate will have a number like 0x04061989 for April 6, 1989.
 
Do not rely on DATES! The french TOS version has the date of the translation
into french, not the US date, so relying on dates on your code will break
in other countries... (Twister did in fact, it checked the date of the
new US roms, which failed on french ones)
 
Thanks anyways for you reply, Alan.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 17:47:14 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdsu!crash!canada@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Diane Barlow Close)
Subject: The Rape of Usenet
Message-ID: <946@crash.cts.com>
 
This message was posted by Dave Small to the atari newsgroup, and I have
many objections and some questions I'd like to pose to the net (so as not
to waste net $$ please direct all followups to news.misc or alt.flame):
 
-> Date: 19 Dec 89 06:00:28 GMT
-> >From: dsmall@well.UUCP (David Small)
-> Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
-> Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
-> Message-ID: <15097@well.UUCP>
->
->      It's time to announce that there is now a working uplink
-> from USENET to GEnie. Each note posted into comp.sys.atari.st is sorted
-> by topic, and uploaded to "Category 10" of the Gadgets RT on GEnie.[...]
->
->      The link is one way. GEnie makes its living selling information
-> bases to the public, and doesn't want them downloaded and distributed freely.
-> [...] I just want to get the maximum freedom of information
-> exchange possible between these networks; [...]
 
I object to this ONE WAY transfer of information.  Dave talks about the
*exchange* of information.  This is not an *exchange*, it is a one-way
transfer of Usenet information.  I object to the rape and plunder
(*for profit*) of Usenet!  A summary of Usenet, or perhaps ``this is the
latest from Usenet'' (1 or 2 articles follow), is acceptable. This wholesale
plunder of Usenet is not.
 
->      I wanted to let you know to prevent invading anyone's privacy.
-> [...] If someone has a real need not to have their notes forwarded to
-> GEnie, I will be happy to put a "filter" on to prevent it by request; [...]
 
I think this should be changed to ``only take articles from Usenet if a
person sends Dave his *approval*''.  Why should I have to trust Dave to remove
my articles?  What if he misses one?  What if my mail can't get through?...
 
I also object most strenously to Dave limiting MY access to information by
scaring away Usenet posters who don't want the kind of publicity GEnie
offers.  Usenet is supported FREELY by a conglomeration of machines (each
company covering a bit of the expenses) and I object very, very much to
GEnie profiting from other sites' generousity.
 
->      It seems to me like a benefit for everyone involved, especially
-> if/when 2-waymail gets going.
 
A benefit for *everyone*?  It is only a benefit for *everyone on GEnie*.
Usenet people don't benefit *at all* from this one-way ``exchange'' of
information.
 
-> [...] other areas on GEnie are
-> expressing great interest in having a USENET uplink. Basically, folks,
-> USENET is perceived as the place where the people who know what they're
-> doing post notes.
 
Does this mean that soon *all* Usenet groups are going to be appearing on
GEnie?  I hope we can stop this before it gets out of hand!
 
->      Why do it? Because a long time ago, on the CERL site on PLATO, a
-> person named Sherwin Gooch, ex-PLATO, ex-Atari, and now with Apple,
-> introduced me to the hacker ethic and freedom of information exchange as
-> its primary goal. (No, not illegal exchange, you know what I mean). [...]
 
I don't call a one-way exchange ``freedom of information''.  I also don't
call *free information* being uploaded to a *pay service* ``freedom''.
The hacker ethic is AGAINST the *sale* of information (as GEnie represents).
If you want a TRUE example of the hacker ethic, then read a bit about
Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation.  *They* represent the
hacker ethic!
 
->      If anyone feels this is wrong, I'll be more than happy to listen and
-> if convinced, drop the link. [...]
 
Write Dave Small and voice your objections TODAY, before it's too late and
Usenet becomes GEnie (and you have to pay through the nose for what was
formerly free)!
 
->      Well, enough said. I hope this leads to good things -- GEnie users
-> getting good information on time, for instance.
 
It's obvious from this sentence who is benefiting from this ``exchange'' of
information -- GEnie and no one else.
 
The more Usenet becomes publicized, the greater the danger of someone in
political power becoming ``concerned''.  Perhaps concerned enough to pass
legislation like that currenly up for review in New York:  a sysop must
validate each and every *message* that is posted to his BBS and must also
guarantee privacy of the message and guarantee that the message NOT appear
on any other service.
 
Is there anything (legal?) that we can do to stop this link?  In general,
are there any ``net rules'' for this type of thing?  Is GEnie in any danger
by uploading Usenet articles wholesale?
--
Diane Barlow Close
      ?nosc, ucsd?!crash!canada
      canada@crash.cts.com
      Free Canada -- Trade Mulroney
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 17:22:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: Unexpandable megas
Message-ID: <370006@acf5.NYU.EDU>
 
>/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / danscott@atari.UUCP (Dan Scott) /  7:17 pm  Dec 18,
 1989 */
>in article <25126@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com says:
>>
>> Consider that the *cheapest* IBM clone board comes *socketed* for easy memory
>> expansion to the maximum RAM the system can utilize...
>
>Of course even on a 80286 computer w/ say 10Megs of RAM MS-DOS still sees
>only 640K (we tested one under windows once for memory use)...
 
Why do people assume that PCs are DOS-ONLY-FOR-EVER-AND-EVER systems?
One can run UNIX and X11 any time of the day.
 (and call DOS in a window, if necessary).
Ever heard of DOS Extenders?
 
A 386SX motherboard (20Mhz) that costs $311 comes with sockets for 8Mb.
 (and 6 expantion slots :-)
 
Thanasis
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 17:34:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: Unexpandable megas
Message-ID: <370007@acf5.NYU.EDU>
 
>/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / gl8f@bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) /  2:32
 pm  Dec 19, 1989 */
>In article <25185@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>!It's always been my understanding of "business" that making one part serve
>!several purposes is more economical...  unless you're trying to "force"
>!customers into paying your price for your product...
>!
>!Why would Atari Corp make *TWO* different PC boards, when it would cost them]
>!more to do it that way...?
>
>Maybe it doesn't cost them more? Do you know anything about manufacturing?
 
I believe that you are right Greg.
Probably it will not cost them more...  Eventually!
 
Since Mega2s can not be expanded, more people would be *forced* to pay
the unreasonably more expensive Mega4s. (now, 1Mbyte costs $90)
So, more money for Atari, less for its loyal followers.
 
Thus, they can afford the extra cost of manufacturing and keeping
double inventory.
 
Thanasis
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 17:56:13 GMT
From: att!cbnews!nrc@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (neal.r.caldwell..ii)
Subject: Usenet-->GEnie
Message-ID: <12486@cbnews.ATT.COM>
 
From article <CMM.0.88.630161342.cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>, by
 cmm1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Christopher M Mauritz):
> While I think this is a good idea, I am somewhat annoyed that this
> arrangement only helps GEnie (a profiteering company) and does naught
> for the users of this net.  So, even though you personally may get no
> benefit from the arrangement, GEnie does and I am therefore against the
> practice.  I'm sure that the powers that be in Usenet will not be
> pleased either.  Just my $.02....
>
> Chris Mauritz
>
> ------------------------------+---------------------------
> Chris Mauritz                 |Where there's a BEER,
> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu   |there's a plan.
> (c)All rights reserved.       |
> Send flames to /dev/null      |Need I say more?
> ------------------------------+---------------------------
 
I agree whole heartedly!  This arrangement puts money into GEnie and
does the net absolutely no good.  Dave, you've done a lot of good things
for the Atari community but please put a stop to this before it goes any
further.
 
I wonder if Chris's copyright notice is a good way to stop this sort of
thing.  Better still, how about something more specific....
 
 
>>>>>> No portion of this messsage may be posted to any for-profit  <<<<<
>>>>>> information service!                                         <<<<<
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't drive too slowly."                 Richard Caldwell
                                          AT&T Network Systems
                                          nrc@cbnews
                                          att!cbnews!nrc
                                          (614) 860-2206
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Dec 89 19:53:38 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!jane!richard@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Where did the binaries go?
Message-ID: <5277.258f8ee3@jane.uh.edu>
 
Whappened to Comp.sys.atari.st? The last binary that I have received was
dated Oct. 4 1989. Is any one else having this problem or are the files
just not geeting through to this sight.
 
                                         Richard L. Coggins
                                    University of Houston Computing Center
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #837
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