INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Fri, 10 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 631
 
Today's Topics:
                      520 ST keyboard connector
                           Atari ABC-286/30
                             CHIP PRICES
                           GEM help needed
                           Give me a break
                Spectre in a Mac Environment (2 msgs)
                         STart November, 1989
                         TCP/IP and Atari ST
                            Vapourware!!!
                  What does the TT Buy me?? (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 89 11:47 EST
From: "Scott P Leslie"
 <UNCSPL%UNC.BITNET@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: 520 ST keyboard connector
 
Hello,
   Does anyone out there know where I can get a new cable that
goes between my 520ST keyboard and the actaul machine itself.  You
know, the one with able 30 wires and partially wrapped around a
thing that looks like a magnet.  Mine seems to be having problems
at the moment; eight keys stop working every so often, and this is
getting overly annoying.
   Does Atari fix this kind of thing?  Or, does anyone know of a
good dealer in the southeast or Boulder CO area?
--
Thanks, Scott P. Leslie (UNCSPL@UNC)   Jax
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1989 12:05 EST
From: Greg Csullog <01659%AECLCR.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Atari ABC-286/30
 
Here's the ABC specs for the netter who asked for info
 
Intel 80286-8 @ 8 MHz
640K standard, expandable to 4 Meg; 96k ROM
68 watt p.s.    <--that's what my specs say; looks low to me!
1-serial, 1-parallel
DOS 3.3, Windows/286  Windows Write/Paint/CardFile
AMI BIOS
30 meg RLL HD (65ms)
1.44 meg-3.5" floppy
MDA/MGC/CGA/EGA graphics card
 
Canadian price approx. $2000, (about $1650 U.S.)
 
I think this includes a mouse.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1989 11:19 EST
From: Greg Csullog <01659%AECLCR.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: CHIP PRICES
 
Once again, could someone post sources of DRAMs and an idea of
prices. I am interested in DRAMs  (<120 ns, 1 megabit) to load
onto the FrankenSTein solderless RAM upgrade board.
 
p.s. this note written with NOS full screen editor on a CYBER 830
accessed using Red Ryder 10.3 under Mac emulation on a 1040ST
with Spectre GCR. Love that GCR.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 15:38:02 GMT
From: asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@handies.ucar.edu  (Richard E. Covert)
Subject: GEM help needed
 
In article <30200013@inmet>, hedger@inmet.inmet.com writes:
>
> Anyway, that's the answer to this problem and I am going to call
> Mark Williams and let them know they have what appears to be a
> documentation error.
> | Keith Hedger :  ?...!?uunet!inmet!hedger   hedger@inmet.inmet.com |
 
 
I found another MWC manual error. If you lookup "form_do" you see that
MWC says to pass a ZERO if the dialog box doesn't have any editable fields.
Actually that MUST Be a negative one (-1) according to the Bantam book
of GEM/AES programming.
 
Has anyone else found any errors in the MWC Version 3.0 manual??
 
Rich Covert
 
P.S. I found a VERY serious bug in Michtron's WERCS Resource Editor. DO
NOT use the UNDESCORE CHARACTER (_) in object names. I am writing a GEM
interface to a program and I kept blasting my HRD file while using WERCS.
HRD is where WERCS stores its internal info about your RSC file. Anyway,
once I stopped using the underscore char in my names WERCS hasn't bombed
once. This hapens on a 520ST with TOS 1.0. My Mega ST with TOS 1.4 is in
the shop so I can't determine if the bug is the infamous TOS 1.0 bug, or
if it is in WERCS. But, just be warned about the underscore char and WERCS.
Other then that, I really like WERCS. It has a test mode where you can see
what you buttons return. It has a utility to convert DEGAS pics into icons.
a really nice package.
 
But, of course it is nice, it came from Europe!!!
rec
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 89 12:53 CST
From: jeff beer <UUCJEFF%ECNCDC.BITNET@UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject: Give me a break
 
I have FLASH 1.52 and its only trouble is that it cannot send a break, or
it has not been documented.  Does anyone know, has FLASH a more recent version,
and does it send a break?
 
Thanks,  Jeff Beer, UUCJEFF@ECNCDC.BITNET  Chicago, IL.
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 16:21:57 GMT
From:
 gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!jhunix!esp_05@tut.cis.ohi
o-state.edu  (Stdnt 05)
Subject: Spectre in a Mac Environment
 
Another gold star for the Spectre:  I bought a Spectre 128 in August
(along with a [yech] Translator One that actually works sometimes),
back before the days of the GCR.  One of my usual IBM programming
contracts expanded into a Mac port, and rather than buy another
computer that I didn't really want in the first place, I got the
Spectre and Think C.  Three weeks later my first program (which,
incidentally is a commercial program) was in final form, and I hadn't
managed to crash the system even once.  I was afraid that trying to
develop software with a Spectre was going to be a fiasco, but I must
say now I am more than pleased with the outcome of this experiment.
 
Eric Ruck
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 18:36:06 GMT
From: brunix!iris.brown.edu!mjv@uunet.uu.net  (Marshall Vale)
Subject: Spectre in a Mac Environment
 
In article <3267@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> esp_05@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Stdnt 05)
writes:
> I got the
> Spectre and Think C.  Three weeks later my first program (which,
> incidentally is a commercial program) was in final form, and I hadn't
> managed to crash the system even once.
 
 So, Think's C works. I have Think's Pascal which in fact doesn't work.
It seems to do some illegal things with the mouse, because when you boot
it, the mouse will not move.  You can quit by Command-Q.  I've been hesitant to
 get Think C because of the situation with their Pascal.  Thanks for letting us
 know that it works.
 
--mjv@iris.brown.edu
"And, oh! Father Christmas, if you love me at all,
 Bring me a big, red india-rubber ball."
                                   A.A. Milne "Now We are Six"
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 89 11:35 EST
From: EDGINGTC%Wabash.Bitnet@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Subject: STart November, 1989
 
Has anyone out there received there November issue of STart.  I have and there
is an amazing program on it called RezRender.  You must have CAD-3D 2.0 or Cyber
 
Sculpt to run it, which I have both, but what it does it amazing.  It applys
various shading techniques and/or ray-tracing shadowing to your .3d2 files.  My
question is this, for anyone who has used this program, or the authors if you
are out there:  several of my files contain large numbers of points and when
RezRender is rendering the Superviews of these files, it bombs out and sends me
to the desktop.  Has anyone else had this problem?  Is there something that can
be done to fix it?  Does anyone else out there use Cad 3d?
 
advTHANKSance,
Chris
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ______                        |  ATARI IS NO. 1  |        Chris Edgington |
| /      \  / \                  |      * * *       |     Wabash College '92 |
| |         | |          .       |      * * *       |    (Purdue next year.) |
| |         | |              __  |      * * *       | Computer Science Major |
| |         |/--\  |--   |  |__  |     ** * **      |             Math Minor |
| \______/  /    \ /  \ / \  __| |   ***  *  ***    |                        |
|                                | ***    *     *** | edgingtc@wabash.bitnet |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 17:35:03 GMT
From: shlump.nac.dec.com!delni.enet.dec.com!goldstein@decuac.dec.com
Subject: TCP/IP and Atari ST
 
In article <2625.25581EA8@tlsi.FIDONET.ORG>,
 Don.Weeks@p0.f3107.n124.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Weeks) writes...
>Is there any chance any of you would know of a TCP/IP program with
>Telnet and FTP for the ST. I would prefer that it communicate out the
>serial port to a modem using SLIP.
 
Sure, I have one running at home.
 
A version of Phil Karn's NET has been ported to the ST.  It's restricted
freeware, available for noncommercial unlimited free use, for
educational and personal applications.  Business use is a no-no.  The
principal use is ham radio; it has a lot of ham special support (i.e.,
AX.25 and NET/ROM subnets). It has SLIP too.
 
I don't have an FTP repository here but it's on a couple of the ones
used by the ham tcp-ers, usually called NETST or some such.  The last
version I have is (if I recall) based on version 890421.1.
      fred (k1io)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 15:26:22 GMT
From: asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@handies.ucar.edu  (Richard E. Covert)
Subject: Vapourware!!!
 
In article <1989Nov8.182505.11625@uunet!unhd>, al770@uunet!unhd (Anthony
 Lapadula) writes:
>
> Greg Csullog wrote:
>
> > Why do some many netters bash Atari in the Atari forum? If you hate Atari
> > so much, get on the Mac or PC forum circuit and stop suffering. Let us
> > Atari users have fun without having to listen to your bitching.
>
> It's not that we hate Atari(1), it's just frustrating to see good
> products buried because they're late.
>
> -- Anthony Lapadula
>
> (1)  I do resent being told in late '85 that my 1040ST would indeed
> be able to use the Blitter, which, of course, was due out RSN.  Don't
> know if I should blame my dealer or Atari, but the example stands.
 
 
Anthony Lapadula expressed my sentiments exactly!!
My complaint (call it whining or bitching if it pleases you)
has centered around Atari's lack new products and of poor
support for existing products. I still enjoy using my Mega ST4
and wouldn't want a Macintosh (well maybe a Mac IIci :-) ).
 
and Atari has a long history of lying to their customers dating back
to the promised Blitter chips for the 520/1040STs. Atari's attitude has
been "We will promise you anything to get you to buy our product, but
don't hold us to our promise". Also, Atari has said if you want the Blitter
buy a Mega ST. Now, the Mega STers have to downgrade to the 1040STE to get
the new stereo sound and hardware scrolling it it. What kind of treatment is
this?? I, for one, bought my Mega ST because of its superior keyboard. I don't
want to go back to a 1040STE with its keyboard just to get some HW improvments.
 
So, what else can a long time Atari SUPPORTER do?? Obviously the Tramiels
don't listen to their DEALERS or their CUSTMOERS.
 
My local Atari dealer is going to COMDEX next weeek. I can't wait to see what
he reports back about Atari's presence at COMDEX.
 
Rich Covert
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 17:58:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / gl8f@astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) /
 10:48 pm  Nov  9, 1989 */
In article <46bcb82f.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
 
>>1) A FAST CPU, at least a 25 Mhz 68030, with an option to go to
>>   33 Mhz or even 50 Mhz as Motorola releases the faster cpus.
>
>You don't understand what a 16 mhz 68030 means. The TT has burst-fill
>mode memory above 2 megs. This means it's faster than the Mac IIcx by
>as much as 50% for typical applications. Apple just released the Mac
>IIci which is capable of running burst-fill ram... the TT is very
>competetive compared to the Mac.
 
Let us see some facts. From BYTE magazines:
 
                IIcx    IIci    ALR/25  SIA/32
 
Matrix          16.2    10.5     2.62    2.10
Sieve           31.4    19.8    14.06   11.02
Sort            29.7    19.4    10.52    8.26
 
 
Mac IIcx, 16Mhz, 120ns Dram, No cach, No Burst fill mode.
Mac IIci, 25Mhz, 80ns  Dram, No cash, Burst fill mode.
 
ALR 386/25, 25Mhz, 80ns Dram, Cash, interleaved memory.
SIA 386/32, 32Mhz, 80ns Dram, Cash, interleaved memory.
 
>This means it's faster than the Mac IIcx by
>as much as 50% for typical applications.
 
Since the IIci is only 35% faster than the IIcx, I could not expect
the TT to be more than 20% faster that the IIcx.
 
Thanasis
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 16:10:00 GMT
From: hp-sdd!apollo!rehrauer@hplabs.hp.com  (Steve Rehrauer)
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
In article <46bcb82f.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
[ "Why buy a TT/P?" ]
>What has happened to Atari Corp?? why can't they design and produce a new
>machine as nice as the ST was back in 1985?? The ST beat other computers
>hands down in 1985. I wish the TT could do the same in 1990!!
 
    Richard, I humbly suggest that what you seem to want, and what I myself
    wouldn't mind having, is an ST emulator for the Amiga.  Think about it.
    You want plug-in CPU upgrades (Amiga can do).  You want multitasking
    (Amiga can do).  You want slots & a more standard bus (A2000 can do;
    didn't C= design the A2000 with some slots that accept PC cards?).  You
    want better graphics (well, C= continues to improve their graphics chips,
    and with an A2000 you can buy a PC Targa board if you need something
    better).  Outline screen fonts?  Well, I don't know of any box in the
    general ST/Amiga/Mac price-range that does that (though I'm sure I'll
    be "gently corrected" if I'm wrong ;-).
 
    I don't own an Amiga, so please abort any "Oh gawd, another Amigoid
    who thinks his machine is better" followups.  I'm not trying to start
    or perpetuate another stupid flame war.  I own a 520ST, and have since
    '85.  It does useful things, but I'd like something better and for
    various reasons I'm reluctant to consider buying another Atari box
    (and can't afford a NeXT, Sun, Apollo, MacIIci or any similar machine
    with the features I want).
 
    As far as I can tell from your many previous postings, the only real
    reason you have (or that any of us have, probably) for wanting to stick
    with an Atari-brand machine is the (possibly substantial) investment
    you've made in software.
 
    Perhaps we should undertake to write one?  I have access to an A2000
    and (obviously) an ST.  What do you say?  Anyone else interested?  Is
    it easy?  Probably far from it.  Perhaps impossible to do (legally,
    anyway -- I'm not contemplating making a disk-copy of my TOS ROMs ;-P ).
    But at least it would give us something constructive to do with our
    dissatisfaction, and everyone else could go back to sleep. ;-)
--
>>"Aaiiyeeee!  Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com
   "Flee, lest we be trod upon!"    | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P.
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #631
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