INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Fri, 10 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 633
 
Today's Topics:
                  Amiga/ST WordPerfect retraction...
                  A Unix Box and it's Cost. (2 msgs)
                  Problems booting w/accessories...
                          terminator archive
           Wanted: Converter for Degas/Neochrome pictures!
                      What does the TT Buy me??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 11:09:56 GMT
From: sgi!shinobu!odin!odin.corp.sgi.com!portuesi@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Michael
 Portuesi)
Subject: Amiga/ST WordPerfect retraction...
 
>>>>> On 9 Nov 89 16:38:07 GMT, Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) said:
 
 
l>     Of course the Amiga system can run another program, such as a
l> spreadsheet, while in WordPerfect, but this is not the same as
l> the 'handy' collection of accessories located in one convenient
l> area of the menu bar.
 
On the Amiga, the Workbench (our equivalent of the Mac Finder or the
GEM Desktop) is always available.  So it's easy to push your
WordPerfect (or whatever) window aside and click on a new icon to
start another concurrent program.  There are also "hot-key" programs
avaialble that bring up a shell at a moment's notice, whereupon you
can run any other program on the system.
 
If you really want a 'handy' collection of frequently-used programs on
the menu bar, there are also PD programs for the Amiga that add such a
menu to the Workbench menu bar.
 
I'm not trying to fan flames; I'm just making sure that information is
accurately presented.
 
                        --M
 
--
__
\/  Michael Portuesi    Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, Inc.
                        portuesi@SGI.COM
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 17:31:21 GMT
From: eagle!ncastellano@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: A Unix Box and it's Cost.
 
In article <12430003@acf5.NYU.EDU>, mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides)
 writes:
>> From: covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
>>
>>What has happened to Atari Corp?? why can't they design and produce a new
>>machine as nice as the ST was back in 1985?? The ST beat other computers
>>hands down in 1985. I wish the TT could do the same in 1990!!
>
> Atari cannot (I reapeat CANNOT) compete with conventional computers
> since these days you can find PCs with:
>       - Very very low prices.
>       - Many and cheap expanantion options.
>       - Much and cheap software.
>       - Very very powerful (memory, disk space, MIPS, screen).
>       - Multiprocessing of just about any kind you can think of.
>
> So what can they do? Except of producing cheap game systems?
>
 
First of all, you get a 68000 microprocessor for half (or less) the price of
a Mac.  Ever try programming in assembly on a 80x86?  Gaak.
 
You also get a computer which can be expanded to run Macintosh software, PC
software, Atari 800 software (nice for those of us who have been with Atari for
a while), Apple IIe software.
 
You also get a computer with lots of PD software (unix shells, editors,
compilers, games)
 
You get a computer which runs neither MS-DOS nor Finder (Both of which
I despise) unless you really want it to, and which can run unix-like shells
(Gulam, MT-C shell).
 
You get a computer with built-in midi capabilities and lots of midi software
available.
 
You get a computer for which you don't have to buy a bus card every time you
get a new piece of hardware.
 
You also get a computer on which you can play games if you want to.  I am a
programmer, so I don't play games much (I sometimes write them...) but it's
nice to be able to play an occasional game of Tetris (which happens to be PD on
the ST...)
 
> [...rest of article deleted...]
>
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you know what you are doing, you are not learning anything."
>
> Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu                (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
> UUCP    : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
>
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
--
_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-
i believe in coyotes in time as an abstract explain the change the difference
between what you want and what you need there's the key your adventure for today
_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_R.-E._M.=_-_=
Nicholas Steven Castellano (dd) | entropy@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu  | Disclaimer: I am
ncastellano@eagle.wesleyan.edu  | ncastellano@wesleyan.bitnet |  irresponsible.
_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-_=_-
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 11 Nov 89 03:49:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: A Unix Box and it's Cost.
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / ncastellano@eagle.wesleyan.edu / 12:31 pm  Nov 10,
 1989 */
 
>First of all, you get a 68000 microprocessor for half (or less) the price of
>a Mac.  Ever try programming in assembly on a 80x86?  Gaak.
 
I have never thought of the posibility of buing a Mac. Proprietary system yach!
I would use assembler only if my life depended on it.
What is wrong with Turbo Pascal?
Link with 100 bytes of assembler if it is really necessary.
 
Once I used 8086 asembler. I will never forget it...
But with the advanced compiler and the comming of the 80386 should not be
any problems.
(Unless you have to write a lot of assembly and keep it MSDOS
 compatible too, maybe)
And 386 systems are dirt cheap too.
 
>You get a computer for which you don't have to buy a bus card every time you
>get a new piece of hardware.
 
I cannot help but think that the alternative would unfortunately be
buying a whole new computer instead.
(What is worse is that often there is not even a new computer to upgrade)
 
-----
I will go back to my first point.
I don't think there is much future for the Atari in the establised marked
of PCs or systems with excellent (often specialised) support.
 
It would be great if they attempted to establish a multiprosessing standard.
If it is cheap and fast and has good graphics, it is certain to succeed.
 
Thanasis
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Has it ever occured to you that God may be a committee?"   R. A. Heinlein
 
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu          (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP    : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 22:51:05 GMT
From: shlump.nac.dec.com!engage.enet.dec.com!oldtmr!wallace@decwrl.dec.com  (Ray
 Wallace)
Subject: Problems booting w/accessories...
 
In article <1669@fredonia.UUCP>, sale5312@fredonia.UUCP (Marty Saletta)
 writes...
>cold or warm boot in the middle.  It's like someone hitting the reset
>switch during bootup before the GEM Desktop appears.
                        ...
>  I use the BICLOCK.PRG program that came with Thunder! to set the time,
>got 1 Meg so memory might no be the problem.  Anyone else have this
>happen frequently?
I used to use TIMESTER in /AUTO to set the time and occasionaly had it bomb on
exit causing a reboot. After a while I tried writting my own time/date setting
program which worked a lot like timester and ran into the same problem. I
never figured out if it was setting the date/time, changing the timestamp on
the .PRG file, or some other thing that caused the bombs.
 
Of course it could be a combination of setting time/date and using IDLE12.PRG
(I use it my my /AUTO also!).
 
---
Ray Wallace
                (INTERNET,UUCP) wallace@oldtmr.enet.dec.com
                (UUCP)          ...!decwrl!oldtmr.enet!wallace
                (INTERNET)      wallace%oldtmr.enet@decwrl.dec.com
---
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 19:41:41 GMT
From: dino!sharkey!math.lsa.umich.edu!dyer@uunet.uu.net  (Jon Brode)
Subject: terminator archive
 
In article <1346@gould.doc.ic.ac.uk> banana@cc.ic.ac.uk (P Monckton) writes:
>Could anybody tell me if it is stil possible to access the
>terminator archive via mail from the uk?
 
When terminator is doing mail service, yes, you can reach it from the uk.
However, the mail server for the atari archive has been turned off due to
the abusive practices of some users. We've been working on a new server,
but due to time constraints it may not be done for a long time.
(christmas vacation is an optimistic guess)
 
The lack of new stuff on terminator is also due to a lack of time on my part.
My apologies to the Atari community.
 
Jon Brode  --  dyer@math.lsa.umich.edu
  Terminator Atari Archive Moderator
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 14:56:38 GMT
From: eru!luth!sunic!mcsun!ukc!mucs!liv-cs!phil@bloom-beacon.mit.edu
Subject: Wanted: Converter for Degas/Neochrome pictures!
 
HELP!!!!!
Does anyone have any programs that can convert Neochrome or Degas files into
one of the graphics interchange standards?  Failing that does anyone have any
info on the format of Neochrome or Degas files so that we can write our own?
I'm posting this message for a student who is doing a project using images
scanned from a camera - he wants to send the images to a mainframe for various
purposes, and of course they are only saveable in Neochrome and Degas formats -
and we don't know of any mainframe conversion routines for these 2.
If anyone does know of any such thing - please mail to me at the address
following - I don't normally read this group.
 
Thanks for your help...
Phil Jimmieson,           ***************************************************
Computer Science Dept.,   *                                                 *
Liverpool University,     * JANET : PHIL@UK.AC.LIV.CS.MVA                   *
PO Box 147                * ARPA  : PHIL%mva.cs.liv.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu   *
Liverpool  L69  3BX       *                                                 *
(UK) 051-794-3689         ***************************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 89 19:43:36 GMT
From:
 gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!haven!uvaarpa!hudson!asts
un9.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
In article <12430004@acf5.NYU.EDU> mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides)
 writes:
>Let us see some facts. From BYTE magazines:
>
>               IIcx    IIci    ALR/25  SIA/32
>
>Matrix         16.2    10.5     2.62    2.10
>Sieve          31.4    19.8    14.06   11.02
>Sort           29.7    19.4    10.52    8.26
>
>
>Mac IIcx, 16Mhz, 120ns Dram, No cach, No Burst fill mode.
>Mac IIci, 25Mhz, 80ns  Dram, No cash, Burst fill mode.
>
>ALR 386/25, 25Mhz, 80ns Dram, Cash, interleaved memory.
>SIA 386/32, 32Mhz, 80ns Dram, Cash, interleaved memory.
 
You left off a few details. OS for the 80x86 boxes? What fraction, if
any, of the IIci memory is running with burst fill mode? And was the
on-chip cache on the 68030 enabled?
 
From the speedup between the x and i, I would think that the IIci wasn't
using burst fill at all.
 
Finally, benchmarking is a black art. I prefer benchmarks which are
similar to the programs which I run, which are all large-memory-model
programs that are big. The Byte benchmarks aren't in this category.
 
The FACTS will arrive when you can run your *application* on a TT and
on other machines and compare the results.
 
------
Greg Lindahl
gl8f@virginia.edu                                             I'm not the NRA.
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #633
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