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INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Tue, 26 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  861
 
Today's Topics:
            Copyrights and Commercial Networks and Usenet
                     GEnie uplink is shut down..
                          Unexpandable megas
             USENET -> GEnie uplink now working (2 msgs)
                    Usenet messages on CIS, GEnie
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Date: 26 Dec 89 01:50:46 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Xorg@apple.com  (Peter Ted Szymonik)
Subject: Copyrights and Commercial Networks and Usenet
Message-ID: <25376@cup.portal.com>
 
Just to echo Dave's words, GEnie has been *exteremely* receptive to new
ideas and newsgroups on their system.  Two years ago I and a few other
veteran wargamers had a vision of creating a large newsgroup of board
wargamers and starting some Play-By-E-Mail games.  GEnie was very helpful
in getting us starting and giving us a chance to prove that the people were
out there to support our idea.  Two years later we have a thriving Diplomacy
and Wargaming Category with industry support from ever major game manufacturer
and have hundred of regular readers - I know of NO other service that would
allowed us this opportunity and taken this chance.
 
Peter Szymonik
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Dec 89 00:03:16 GMT
From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU  (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: GEnie uplink is shut down..
Message-ID: <1125891803166696@thelake.UUCP>
 
In article <25357@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
displays some basic misunderstandings that are fueling this whole
bandwidth-wasting discussion. This is an attempt to clear them up for
everybody's sake.
 
> What I'm surprised that no one has suggested throughout all of this is that
> GEnie just bite the bullet and become a UseNet site.
 
Even the most vocally antiGEnieans have suggested precisely that.
 
> Portal has been
> mentioned several times in the discussion, but Portal is a paying member
> of UseNet and has full two-way access.   The way GEnie was doing it was
> by getting in "the backdoor", for free.
 
Paying member of Usenet? Paying whom? Not me. I may forget my phone number
sometimes, but I wouldn't forget a check from Portal. No siree. It doesn't
work that way.
 
Usenet is NOT a physical network. Usenet is NOT a legal entity. Usenet
does NOT have a corporate existence.
 
To be on the network, you don't have to pass muster with any sort of
screening committee. There isn't one.
 
You don't buy a license. You don't have to get a node number. Usenet is
not the Internet, nor is it Fidonet, nor is it run by the government or by
universities or even corporations. It's just something that happens, by
consensus: Site A agrees to exchange messages with site B. Site B agrees
to exchange messages with sites C, D and E. If Site A doesn't like Site E
appearing on the network, it can decline to participate in the network. It
has no authority to forbid Site E from joining.
 
> There would be no "flood" of GEnie material, as only messages specifically
> posted to UseNet (as with Portal) would appear on the newsgroups.
 
That's up to the site (GEnie).
 
> However, it would take money to set up as a UseNet site, and it would take
> software to handle the newsgroup feeds.  That would take a bit more selling
> than just offering them something for free.
 
Usenet software is free. Usenet news standards are quite simple and
well-documented. If I can figure it out, I'm sure it's intelligible to
General Electric, one of the world's largest industrial corporations, and
its data-networking subsidiary (of which GEnie is a minor component).
 
Everybody, PLEASE, before you get all worked up in a dither and start
flapping your arms, take the time to bone up on the network. Read the
postings in news.announce.newusers. Go to the library and read Harry
Henderson's excellent article on Usenet in the Waite Group's "Tricks of
the Unix Masters." Read news.misc and news.admin for awhile. Do your
homework. Keep the flames in the fireplace.
 
 --
 
THE FINE PRINT: This message is Copyright 1989 by Steve Yelvington. You
may not read it. Oops! You've already read it? Now you're in deep sh*t.
I'll feed you to my fire-breathing attorney, who will take your car, your
house and (gasp) your computer, then destroy your city and the city of
each of your relatives, and the entire planet Earth and maybe the Milky
Way galaxy, and get a court order to seize Usenet and give it to the
bloodsucking capitalist leeches. (No! Not the leeches!) (Yes! The
leeches!) Also, if you try to post a copyright-restricted response, your
monitor will explode and blow your head off, and you'll get warts on the
palms of your hands. If you believe this, you must send me $1.5 million in
gold and a faster hard drive. Oh, by the way, I own GEnie. I'm just
kidding. Really. Happy New Year!
 
--
   Steve Yelvington at the snow-covered lake in Minnesota
   Reliable UUCP path: ... umn-cs.cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Dec 89 08:36:42 GMT
From: pacbell!sactoh0!mfolivo@ames.arc.nasa.gov  (Mark F. Newton)
Subject: Unexpandable megas
Message-ID: <2333@sactoh0.UUCP>
 
With all the discussion (to me, whining) about how "easy" it is to
expand IBM memory as opposed to the Mega, (blah blah blah), I have
one thing to say.
 
Why do you need megabytes upon megabytes of memory, if you use a
computer in a home environment? Do you really need 93 Terabytes to
do word processing?
 
I have a Mega 4, and for home purposes, it is sufficient. And even
for small business use, 4Mb is certainly enough to drive laser
printers.
 
Do some people really know how much memory 4Mb is? Most small
businesses get by with 640k, maybe even 1Mb (which most IBMs only
use less than 640k in their programs). I mean, 4000kb is not
enough?
 
About not being able to expand the Mega 2, has someone from Atari
responded to my posting about the 2Mb expansion kit from Atari?
To reiterate, I once worked at an Atari dealer, and we had a couple
of these 2Mb expansion boards that plugged into the expansion bus.
Since I had a Mega 4, you couldn't plug it in, but we never sold
one to any Mega 2 owners. With all this talk about more memory, is
this expansion board still available from Atari?
 
For home use, and small business use 4Mb is certainly enough. And
if you *really* need more capacity, then the TT is for you.
(Although you need to go to Europe to get one)
 
Mata ne da-cha,
Shinobu
 
--
Sakura-mento, CA
 
mmsac!sactoh0!mfolivo   mfolivo@sactoh0
pacbell!sactoh0!mfolivo   (they're worth a try...)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Dec 89 01:39:38 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Xorg@apple.com  (Peter Ted Szymonik)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <25374@cup.portal.com>
 
Is the Net designed as a means of information exchange?  If so then so
be it.  Surely a one-way link is better than no link at all.  I spend
well over 75% of my Net time passing information between the other services
I am on and the Net and its not fun.  The fault lies not with GEnie and
other pay services, but rather the Net itself.  If the Net is truely set
up to facilitate information exchange then its impossible for it to be
'raped' for information sinec that is its only reason for existance right?
 
Peter Szymonik
Xorg@cup.portal.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Dec 89 01:44:09 GMT
From: fox!portal!cup.portal.com!Xorg@apple.com  (Peter Ted Szymonik)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <25375@cup.portal.com>
 
The distinction between the Net and GEnie and other pay services goes far
beyond the price aspect.  Face it, there are things which you can get from
an on-line service which the Net does not provide (and never will due to
its structure.)  I don't mean to knock the Net, just to point out that it
is very different from other services.  I can get all the free news I want
from radio and television, but there is a reason why I BUY magazines like
The Economist.  Surely you would agree that all information is NOT free,
you get what you pay for.
 
Peter Szymonik
Xorg@cup.portal.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Dec 89 06:45:36 GMT
From: oli-stl!asylum!sharon@decwrl.dec.com  (Sharon Fisher)
Subject: Usenet messages on CIS, GEnie
Message-ID: <9274@asylum.SF.CA.US>
 
In article <1989Dec25.105130.23070@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura)
 writes:
>     This is a long standing problem and we've been wrestling with
>it on BIX.  If I can blow our horn a bit, at least on BIX we *care*
>about how people feel about moving messages from Usenet to BIX.
 
I'm not sure that that's globally true.  Somebody posts stuff from the
NeXT newsgroups here to the NeXT forum on BIX, and when I asked if the
person had asked permission, I was told no because 'it was public
domain.'
>I've shared messages from 'rec.arts.anime' with some specific people
>on BIX, but I've only made general postings of things on special
>occasions and usually with specific approval by authors.
 
>     But this leaves me with a problem:  If people are doing this on
>Compuserve and Genie, then BIX may be at a competitive disadvantge
>because I've been the "good guy".  So maybe I should change my practice
>and start posting a digest of 'rec.arts.anime' on BIX?
 
Sigh.  Presumably you do what you do because you are not happy morally
or ethically with the concept of posting stuff wholesale.  So isn't it
better to stick with your conscience?
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #861
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