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From:     INFO-ATARI16-REQUEST@MIL.ARMY.WSMR-SIMTEL20
Subject:  INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #506
Comments: To: INFO-ATARI16@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Tue, 10 Oct 89       Volume 89 : Issue 506
 
Today's Topics:
                                ANSI C
                      Avant-Garde's PC_DDRVR.SYS
                         Free RAM from Atari
                         HARD DRIVES FOR STs
                       Input thru printer port
                          PD Word Processors
                            PROGRAM COSTS
                       Ram upgrades for 520 st
                          Spectre Partitions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Oct 89 02:55:45 GMT
From: rochester!rit!ultb!adw3345@louie.udel.edu  (A.D. Williams)
Subject: ANSI C
 
 Someone asked if MWC was worth buying although it is not ANSI and ANSI
C is sure to be passed in the future.
 The big point about ANSI C is that one compiler will run on another
compiler with no changes in libraries, etc. ANSI helps clear up the
points K & R were vague about and hence a cause for differences between
compilers.
 Now the way I see it is that MWC follows the ANSI C standard in spirit
(I.e., Structures can be passed as a parameter rather than a pointer),
and unless your code is going to have a wide distribution over different
machines, you won't *absolutely* need ANSI.
 I have been using MWC for about 2 years, and I have learned a lot about
C as well as the Atari ST. I use it for my own purposes, and it is rare
that I need to compile it on a different machine, as I use MWC for many
Atari-specific programs. I think people holding their breath for ANSI
are thinking "If I only had ANSI, I will be able to do *anything!*".
That's what I felt like before I started writing "serious" code (i.e.,
big programs that did something useful, etc.). First I thought I
*needed* a hard drive before I could get anything done, then I *needed*
a time chip (for Make), before I realized I didn't actually need them to
write a "Hello World" program.
 You may actually need an ANSI compiler (Prospro provides one), but I
think the vast majority of would-be Atari Programmers will do well to
get MWC (or any other compiler), even if it doesn't have ANSI.
 
                                                         Derrick
 
.sig under construction.
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Oct 89 12:42:13 GMT
From: cs.dal.ca!silvert@uunet.uu.net  (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Avant-Garde's PC_DDRVR.SYS
 
In article <126044@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> kron%aiki@Sun.COM (Kenneth Kron) writes:
>From article <1989Oct8.202742.10601@cs.dal.ca>, by silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill
 Silvert):
>> Lars-Erik Osterud recently pointed out that you can use
>> Avant-Garde's PC_DDRVR.SYS to read normal ST disks on a PC.
>
>How do you get pc_ddrvr.sys, is this sold as PC software or what ?
>
>Inquiring minds wanna know!
 
It comes with PC Ditto.  Whether they will sell it separately I don't
know.  Inquiring minds will have to write Avant-Garde.
 
 
--
Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division.
Bedford Institute of Oceanography, Dartmouth, NS, Canada B2Y 4A2
	UUCP: ...!?uunet,watmath?!dalcs!biomel!bill
	Internet: biomel@cs.dal.CA	BITNET: bs%dalcs@dalac.BITNET
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Oct 89 12:58:08 GMT
From:
 gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!xanth!src@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
  (Scott R. Chilcote)
Subject: Free RAM from Atari
 
In article <5261@shlump.nac.dec.com> landry@enginr.dec.com writes:
>"
>"  So, for the cost of soldering one pin of one IC to the motherboard,  I
>"have a FOUR MEGABYTE computer!!
>"
>
>	My guess is that this was a Mega 4 that didn't pass the checkout.
>       ...
>	So you got lucky!
>
>	chris
 
  I originally suspected this, but there's no evidence to support your
belief.  The (now) Mega 4 has been operating flawlessly as a four-Meg machine
for several days now.  Also, the method by which the upper banks were disabled
doesn't support the possibility of the machine ever having been intended to
function as a Mega 4.  When the RAS2* pin was left _unsoldered_, rather than
clippied or disconnected, no test could have been made of the machine with
all four Megabytes operating.
 
  At this point, it seems that it must have been less expensive for Atari to
make some machines with all of the RAM filled than to make two production runs
separately, one for each size machine.  In order for that to have happened,
Atari must have either been WAY behind on Mega 2 deliveries, or have gotten a
_very_ good price on 1 Megabyte DRAMs!
 
                                                                Scott
 
--
 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
|.--------------------------------..---------------------------------------.|
|| Usenet: src@xanth.UUCP         ||                                       ||
||   Arpa: src@xanth.cs.odu.edu   ||    Q: Why did the chicken cross the   ||
||  Earth: Scott R. Chilcote      ||       Moebus Strip?                   ||
||                                ||                                       ||
||     |||     "Sure, Jack, we    ||    A: To get to... er...  umm...      ||
||     |||   trust you.  But will ||                                       ||
||    / | \   will you respect us ||        -----=====#####=====-----      ||
||   /  |  \     in the morning?" ||                                       ||
|:________________________________:'---------------------------------------'|
'---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Oct 89 18:30:30 GMT
From: cacilj!paul@uunet.uu.net  (Paul Close)
Subject: HARD DRIVES FOR STs
 
A very informative posting, Chris!  Thought I would add my own experiences in...
 
In article <1381@ultb.UUCP> clf3678@ultb.UUCP (C.L. Freemesser) writes:
>
>My personal preferences for each item:
>
>1) Seagate hard disk mechs.  They are recognized as the best.
 
These are your personal preferences -- please don't throw in lines like "They
are recognized as the best"!
 
When I went to put together my own hard drive, the hard drive dealer steered
me away from Seagate, because they had switched manufacturing plants, and the
new drives were not reliable.
 
When selecting a hard drive, get the MTBF (mean time between/to failure?)
figures.  I have a Micropolous drive, and it should last twice as long as a
seagate based on these figures.
 
I have read on the net of many unhappy Seagate customers (the ROM7/ROM8
contraversy)--it is unlikely that they would recognize Seagate as the best!
 
>2) Adaptek 4000A controller.  Quite popular from what I gather.  There
>   is also the Adaptek 4000 controller, but this older version will NOT
>   support removable media hard disks.  However, the 4000 is cheaper.
 
I like the 4000A as well.  I believe there is a controller called omni or
omnti that is supposed to be very fast.  If you have a fast drive, you might
want to find out more.  I think the fastest result is to get an embedded-SCSI
controller drive, like the Quantum.
 
>3) ICD Host Adapter.  I like them, and everybody I know uses one.
 
I went with a BMS-200.  It worked for me....  I did have to get software that
would support more than 4 partitions -- it seems that BMS didn't bother
extending Atari's four partition scheme.
 
For me, the big win in building my own hard drive was speed!  I have a 28ms
65 meg drive that also happened to cost much less than an equivalent 60 ms
Atari drive!
 
>You will also need 3 cables.  First, you need a 20 pin card edge ->
>header to go from the hard disk to controller, a 34 pin card -> card to
>go from hard disk to controller, and a 50 pin header -> header to go
>from the controller to the ST interface.  The interface will come with
>the 19 pin DMA cable.  If you get a drive with an embedded SCSI
>controller, you only need the 50 pin cable.
 
My BMS-200 came with all cables and some mounting hardware.
 
You still need some form of enclosure.  If you buy a kit, like ICD's kit, make
sure the drive(s) you have will fit the enclosure.  ICD's kit will only take
half-height drives.  My drive happens to be a full-height.  Not a flame
against ICD or others, just be aware that there are different sized drives!
 
--
Paul Close	paul@cacilj.CTS.COM 	...!?uunet, ucsd, crash?!cacilj!paul
 
    The Obi-wan Kenobi method:  "Use the Source, Luke"	-Jim Fulton
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1989 13:12:15 MEZ
From: Edgar Schwietzke <SCHWIETZ%DBNUOR1.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Input thru printer port
 
Several hardware expansions for the 1040 ST are designed to be accessed thru
the printer (parallel) port configured to act as an input port.
For example, the sound sampler which I purchased recently, directly feeds its
(TTL compatible, non-open-collector) outputs to the printer port.
 
Since the printer port is switched to OUTPUT mode during system initialization,
there is a good chance that the port lines are driven by two opposite voltage
levels, isn't it?
I'm not familiar with the electrical details, but isn't there the risk of
damaging the soundchip?
 
I've been using the sampler without any problems so far. Nevertheless,
I would like to know what's going on ...
 
I'd appreciate any comments and further information on this subject.
 
Edgar Schwietzke
Research Institute of Discrete Mathematics
University of Bonn
West Germany
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Oct 89 12:51:36 GMT
From: cs.dal.ca!silvert@uunet.uu.net  (Bill Silvert)
Subject: PD Word Processors
 
In article <3968@blake.acs.washington.edu> themod@blake.acs.washington.edu
 (Chris Hinton) writes:
>
>  Hello you netters, I need some help.  I need a good PD Word Processor.  I
>have (gak!) 1st Word, but I hate it with a passion.  I also think spending
>$100+ for any program is just plain stupid.  Any suggestions?
 
Why stupid?  Good software takes time to write, and a decent commercial
product can easily be worth more than $100.
 
ST users are lucky -- the machine is easy to program, and lots of
hackers like it, so we get super freeware in areas like communications.
For text, you have lots of variants on emacs.
 
But if you want the kind of applications software that people don't
write for the fun of it, like dBASE and Lotus clones or desktop
publishing packages, you have to pay a fair price.  Fortunately this is
usually a lot less than the MS-DOS or Mac versions.
 
The attitude that paying for software is stupid is probably one of the
reasons that there is little commercial support for the ST.
 
 
--
Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division.
Bedford Institute of Oceanography, Dartmouth, NS, Canada B2Y 4A2
	UUCP: ...!?uunet,watmath?!dalcs!biomel!bill
	Internet: biomel@cs.dal.CA	BITNET: bs%dalcs@dalac.BITNET
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 OCT 89 08:34:27 CST
From: Z4648252 <Z4648252%SFAUSTIN.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject: PROGRAM COSTS
 
Chris Hinton writes:
 
"  Hello you netters, I need some help.  I need a good PD Word Processor.  I
have (gak!) 1st Word, but I hate it with a passion.  I also think spending
$100+ for any program is just plain stupid.  Any suggestions?"
 
    Have you tried ST Writer?  It is not a WYSIWYG type word processor
but is fast, well-supported, and is constantly updated.  It can be
found in STart magazine (I think).
 
"$100+ for any program is just plain stupid."
 
    Why?  Some of the better business programs may take a team
of several professional programmers and many months of hard work.
Where does the money come from for their salary and research costs?
    I don't like the costs either but we have to be realistic.  If
one uses a piece of software on a regular basis, then, philosophically,
it is as if it was a piece of equipment such as a printer or disk
drive.
    STers still, in spite of the moaning over piracy, feel that
software should be "cheap".  Sorry for the slight flame but I fear for
the ST's software development and research.  Just my overly biased
opinion....
 
Larry Rymal:  |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Oct 89 14:26:20 GMT
From:
 gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!uwm.edu!mrsvr.UUCP!jupiter.uucp!
krieg@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Andrew Krieg)
Subject: Ram upgrades for 520 st
 
In article <11562@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, bediako@cs.buffalo.edu (Bernard
 Bediako) writes:
>
> Can anyone tell give any recommendations on the best solderless ram
> upgrade kits?  Right now I'm heading toward the EZ ram II.  I need to know
> any comments/problems there are with it.
> 	Also, does it matter what speed (ns) chips I use?  Will there be any
> problems using 100 or 80ns chips?  Will things speed up if I use 80ns chips?
> (I'm planning on using 1M * 1 chips).
 
I bought an EZ Ram II about 2 years ago.  They had just changed the board
design and it didn't work when I received it.  I had to return it twice
before I got one that worked.  They did refund all of my shipping charges.
 
Since then it has been working great.  I started with the 256K bit chips and
just recently bought the 1M bit chips.  Still running strong, never
misbehaves.
 
The ST can't make use of any speed increase in chips above 150 ns.  EZ Ram II
recommends 120ns chips however.  I bought 100 ns ones, mainly because they
are more reliable (and durn cheap now!).  Not many places carry the 120ns 1M
chips, and the 100ns ones are usually only a quarter or so more a piece.
 
It's great to have a 2.5 Meg machine :~)
 
Now a question of my own.  Could I use my 256K bit chips I replaced in one of
those cartridge RAM expanders every one is talking about on this board?
Would I be able to have 3 Meg?  Or won't it work with another expansion
already in place?  If it would work, how much are those carts with no RAM?
 
 
=========================================================================
=									=
=	The Atari Addict				A. Krieg	=
=									=
=		G.E. Medical Systems - CT - New Berlin, WI		=
= 	   	     USENET: krieg@jupiter.med.ge.com			=
=									=
=========================================================================
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1989 09:21 EDT
From: Greg Csullog <01659%AECLCR.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Spectre Partitions
 
>Subject: spectre 128 + ICD
>To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
>I would like to put a 'Mac' partition on my 30Mbyte ICD drive.
>Following the directions which came with spectre I managed to
>cause the ST to think that the drive was unformatted. I must of
>done something wrong but I don't know where I erred. Any tips?
>
>While on the subject is spectre GCR shipping yet?
>
 
Once you format a partition as Spectre format, the ST cannot read it any
more, that's why you get the ST message that the drive cannot be accessed.
You can only read Spectre partitions under Mac emulation!
 
Yes, according to Sandy Small, GCR is shipping now.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 89 16:50:46 DNT
From: C878025%NEUVM1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
 
Date: 10 October 1989, 16:50:23 DNT
From: C878025  at NEUVM1
To:   info-atari16@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil
 
help
HELP
/help
/HELP
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #506
*****************************************