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INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Tue,  5 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue 757
 
Today's Topics:
                          3dbin/Matricks Doc
                        ATARI 1040ST FOR SALE
                              Form Doc's
                      GNU C Floating Point Math
                        Help with Uniterm 2.0e
                  LaserPrinters and the ST (2 msgs)
                      Monochrome Monitor Wanted
                            Shareware MAC
                          Still searching...
                      TDI Modula-2 Missing Pages
                        Ultrascript experience
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Date: 5 Dec 89 23:27:13 GMT
From: skiff.cis.ohio-state.edu!thamer@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Mustafa Thamer)
Subject: 3dbin/Matricks Doc
Message-ID: <74725@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>
 
I downloaded the 3dbin archive from the graphics directory at panarthea,
and it's just what I'm looking for.
Although it comes with some basic documentation, the author said he
would post the complete atari-specific doc in comp.sources.misc.
Unfortunately, I've been unable to find it.  I did find another
archive called matricks, (which is supposed to be the name of the
3dbin Doc also), but this is a different program.
        Anyone been able to find this anywhere, if not, maybe I'll try
to track down the author?
        By the way (on a side note), how do KILL files work?  Some of
these groups get so big ?100 messages a day.  Will this automatically
do some pre-processing/screening for me?
 
        Thanks ...
 
Mustafa Thamer
 
 
-=-
 
                                "Two days ago I saw a vehicle that'd
                                 haul that tanker.  You wanna get out
                                 of here; you talk to me."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 17:11:18 GMT
From: hpda!hpcuhb!hp-ses!hpdml93!opto@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Lloyd Broadbent)
Subject: ATARI 1040ST FOR SALE
Message-ID: <15480003@hpdml93.HP.COM>
 
I am selling my second Atari computer system.
The color monitor is one year old and has had little use.
 
 
HARDWARE:
 
     1040STfm without RF modulator,  TOS 1.0
     1 Meg DS/DD 720K drive
     Mouse
     Original box and manuals
 
     Atari SC1224 Color Monitor
     Original box and manuals
 
 
SOFTWARE:
 
     Atari ST
         ST language disc
 
     Games
         Empire
         F-15 Strike Eagle
 
     Applications
         Free promotional copy WordPerfect version 4.1
 
 
TERMS:
 
     $625 For all.  I will ship the items UPS insured anywhere that you
      specify in the continental US.
 
 
                          email: opto@hpdmmbe.HP.COM
                          phone: (208) 323-3376 (days)
                                 (208) 345-9266 (nights)
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 23:30:57 GMT
From: tahoe!wheeler!mikew@apple.com  (Mike Whitbeck)
Subject: Form Doc's
Message-ID: <3252@tahoe.unr.edu>
 
In article <473eecf4.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
|In article <5120.257a7166@elroy.uh.edu|, richard@elroy.uh.edu writes:
|| In article <89338.035427JJL101@PSUVM.BITNET|, J.J. Lehett
 <JJL101@PSUVM.BITNET| writes:
|| |     Is there anyone that knows where I could get a copy of the Documents to
|| | Form other than in DVI form....preferably in straight ASCII type.
||
|
|I can use tha ASCII docs to FORM as well.
|
|Hey, it doesn't seem like many folks like the TeX docs to form.
|
|Must be some form of Elitest mentatlity to post docs to a program
|in a format that 99% of the people don't use.
|
|Hey, if you are good enough you will have TeX, right? :-)
 
 RIGHT ! :-)
 Seriously, TeX is available PD for just about everything  (even
 Mac's 'n VAX) and no expertise is required to run a previewer
 like showdvi.prg (great PD - ware). ON THE SURFACE a dvi file
 is no more prejudicial than uudecode, zoo, or arc. All of
 these require finding and learning to get at the goodies on the
 Net --- However there is a
 problem with dvi files over submitting *.tex files. NOT ALL
 SITES ARE CREATED EQUAL - the form.dvi uses magnified fonts
 that some sites (like my ST and my SUN) don't have. Given the
 source .tex file one could compensate.
 TeX is ascii and can be read/reformatted without TeX
 or hardly any skills.
 
So why send .tex? I printed the first 7 pages of form.dvi and
YES the author does use the EXCELLENT math typesetting
capabilities of TeX. - That makes it very useful to those with
access to the Net (and hence the PD tex stuff). [useful but not
essential perhaps- hey I only printed 7 of 250 pages].
 
BTW next week IF i can find the time and source for dvi-2-tty
I'll look in to making an ascii file for posting. Please no mail
no promises! Also please note that I have no idea what an ascii
version would look like wrt the math typesetting.
 
|
|Oh well, it could have been done in nroff, which at least most UN*X
|people have access to.
| Richard E. Covert (covertr@gtephx)
|  (602) - 581-4652
||  AG Communications Systems, Phoenix AZ   |
| UUCP: ?ncar!noao!asuvax | uunet!zardoz!hrc | att?!gtephx!covertr
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 20:08:46 GMT
From: cica!ctrsol!samsung!aplcen!jhunix!esp_05@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Stdnt
 05)
Subject: GNU C Floating Point Math
Message-ID: <3526@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>
 
I just downloaded the copy of GNU C from terminator, oh, two weeks
ago, the same time I downloaded the pml package.  Maybe I should try
drgsun.
 
At any rate Megamax C blew GNU C away in speed and executable size
(GNU C took twice as long, and the executables were around twice as
large).  The only problem with it is that it doesn't have stdlib
functions, although without those I can still improvise.
 
Eric
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 20:03:47 GMT
From: cica!ctrsol!samsung!aplcen!jhunix!esp_05@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Stdnt
 05)
Subject: Help with Uniterm 2.0e
Message-ID: <3525@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>
 
When Uniterm 2.0e refuses to dial a second number after the first one
does (or doesn't) work, I just use the reset function from the pop-up
menu, and all becomes well.
 
Eric
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 21:00:04 GMT
From: tramp!millert@boulder.colorado.edu  (MILLER TODD C)
Subject: LaserPrinters and the ST
Message-ID: <14582@boulder.Colorado.EDU>
 
In reference to Adobe putting PostScript in the Public Domain.  Yes!  Amazing
 asit sounds Adobe has anounced that PS will be made PD in early 1990 (it may
 have
been by the end of the first quarter but I can't remember).  The PD Postscript
will be able to use Type 1 fonts (something PS emulators can't do) and I
 believeAdobe will be giving out info on how the Type 1 fonts are created (don't
 quote
me on that).  For more info check out the December Computer Shopper.
 
Hope this clears up the confusion.
                                  -Todd
 
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                 Todd Miller - millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU                     |
|    CU rules!  Buffs #1  See ya on New Year's Day in Miami - Orange Bowl!!!   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 21:57:45 GMT
From: tramp!millert@boulder.colorado.edu  (MILLER TODD C)
Subject: LaserPrinters and the ST
Message-ID: <14586@boulder.Colorado.EDU>
 
In reference to Adobe putting PostScript in the Public Domain.  Yes!  Amazing
 asit sounds Adobe has anounced that PS will be made PD in early 1990 (it may
 have
been by the end of the first quarter but I can't remember).  The PD Postscript
will be able to use Type 1 fonts (something PS emulators can't do) and I
 believeAdobe will be giving out info on how the Type 1 fonts are created (don't
 quote
me on that).  For more info check out the December Computer Shopper.
 
Hope this clears up the confusion.
                                  -Todd
 
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                 Todd Miller - millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU                     |
|    CU rules!  Buffs #1  See ya on New Year's Day in Miami - Orange Bowl!!!   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 22:49:15 GMT
From: mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!psurge@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Troy Carpenter)
Subject: Monochrome Monitor Wanted
Message-ID: <7305@cs.utexas.edu>
 
Does anyone out there in NETLAND have a monochrome monitor that they want to
sell?  I have some applications that use Monochrome mode, and the emulators
just won't work too well.
 
Thanks in advance, please send me email and I will get back to you.
 
 
Troy Carpenter
Computer Sciences
The University of Texas, Austin
psurge@cs.utexas.edu
                              Troy Carpenter
                            Computer  Sciences
                      THE University of Texas, Austin
                           psurge@cs.utexas.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 07:10:06 GMT
From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU  (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: Shareware MAC
Message-ID: <1105890110063264@thelake.UUCP>
 
In article <3395@brazos.Rice.edu>,
     bro@titan.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) writes ...
 
>
>The suggestion was made that instead of using a cartridge, code that works
>like the MAC ROMs but doesn't violate Apple's copyright could be used. This
>is a great idea. No one has done it yet, which is one of the reasons why no
>Apple clones (other than STs :-) exist yet.
>
>It is a technical difficulty, or a legal one? How does Phoenix et al. get
>away with IBM clone ROMs? Licensing? Work-alike?
>
 
Work-alike.
 
But there is a big difference between PC-clone ROMs and Macintosh ROMs.
The PC-clone ROM is quite tiny, just a BIOS (Basic Input-Output System)
that allows the rest of MS-DOS to function. Macintosh ROMs provide a much
richer foundation for the portion of the Mac OS that comes on disk.
 
Recreating the functionality of the Mac ROMs would be quite a technical
achievement. If anyone solves the technical difficulty, though, they had
better be prepared for an ugly legal fight. Apple already has sued Digital
Research over GEM and Microsoft over Windows, and they're not even
Mac-compatible.
 
-- Steve Yelvington at the (almost frozen enough to skate) lake in Minnesota
   UUCP: ... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 17:50:12 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzaz!bds@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Buce Szablak)
Subject: Still searching...
Message-ID: <874@lzaz.ATT.COM>
 
In article <1854@atari.UUCP>, kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
> I seriously doubt that the _majority_ of people who buy Atari
> computers, or any other computers for that matter, have the slightest
> desire to program their machines...
 
While a "_majority_" of ST owners may not want to program their ST, every
ST owner I know of does at least some hacking.
 
> It is important to make sure that professional programmers know how to
> program the computers, not end users.
 
Sorry, you are way off base here. Most PD software comes from end-users
who in reality are "professional programmers" who don't wish/expect
to make a dime off of their efforts. BESIDES, aren't I (an end-user who uses
his ST to write programs for enjoyment) a valued customer????
Aren't my CUSTOMER needs important??? Your attitude really bothers me.
 
(Someone posted the suggestion that Atari follow Next's example when they
introduce the TT, and package GCC and utilities with each machine; that would
be a SMART move. I won't hold my breath...)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 18:30:43 GMT
From: hp-pcd!hpmcaa!patrick@hplabs.hp.com  (Patrick Hawke)
Subject: TDI Modula-2 Missing Pages
Message-ID: <760013@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com>
 
When I purchased TDI Modula-2 my manual was missing pages 127-140.
 
  I called the number in the front of the manual and it was disconnected.
 
TDI must be out of business?
 
 
Would somebody who has TDI Modula-2 be kind enough to copy the pages for
a few bucks?
 
I'm missing the Definition Modules for Storage,System, and Mathlib on the
pages above.
 
Please Reply to:
patrick@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
 
Thank You !!!
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Dec 89 20:16:42 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Richard E.
 Covert)
Subject: Ultrascript experience
Message-ID: <473fe9f1.14a1f@force.UUCP>
 
In article <2389@hudson.acc.virginia.edu>, gl8f@bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU (Greg
 Lindahl) writes:
> In article <473a552d.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
>
> >All in all, the extra bucks that I am paying for the Panasonic laser printer
> >are well worth it to me. And I am getting a FASTER printer (11 ppm vs 8ppm of
> >the SLM804).
>
> You know, Richard, you don't listen.
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's just get nasty here!! :-)
 
 
OK Greg, in one of my last messages I *SAID* that for strictly ST work the
SLM804 is faster than any other printer. That is because of the DMA port of
course. I will give you that. OK? No more arguments?
 
>
> I posted an article explaining WHY the SLM804 is sometimes faster than
> other laser printers, even with faster print engines, in certain
> situations.  Several people posted articles saying, yes, in real life,
> they have seen this.
>
> I can assure you that, running Ultrascript, the SLM804 will beat the pants
> of your Panasonic laser printer printing, for example, full page bitmaps.
>
> Why don't you benchmark it in various situations before you shoot your
> mouth off? Why can't you include a little disclaimer, "Well, there are
Nasty temper you have there Greg! :-)
 
> situations where the SLM804 is a lot faster than the Panasonic." Yes,
> the Panasonic may be the best printer for you, but not necessarily for
> everyone else. They might be very surprised to plug it in and find
> that it doesn't print 11 pages per minute, every minute.
>
> Your attitude is entirely non-professional. I hope you grow out of
> your childish Atari-bashing phase.
Real nasty mouth there!! :-)
 
> Greg Lindahl
 
 
Greg, I have said before that the MAJOR reason that I sold my SLM804 and bought
a Panasonic KX-P4450 is that I wanted a laser printer that I could use with
Spectre and pc dittoII at a full 300 dpi. The SLM804 can not print at 300 dpi
with the Spectre now(disclaimer: Without UltraScript that it is), and can't even
be used at at with pc ditto.
 
Greg, I bought my Panasonic because, given that I wanted a laser printer that
emaulates a Laser Jet, the Panasonic KX-P4450 is the fastest laser printer
for under $2,000.00. It is faster than the Packard-Bell (which sells for
about $1200 with 1 meg, a real bargain), the HP Laser Jet IIP (which sells
for about $995 with 1/2 meg), the HP Laser Jet II (which sells for about $1700
with 1/2 meg) or the Epson or the Brother or the Canon. OK?
 
I don't need to benchmark the SLM804 against these other laser printers, because
they ALL will be slower than the SLM804 for ST work. I agree with that. But,
the Panasonic KX-P4450 will be faster than the HP Laser Jet IIp,II, the Brother,
the Canon, the Packard-Bell, or any other laser printer for under $2,000. I
am *NOT* bashing Atari for the SLM804. It is a wonderful, though limited,
printer. It just doesn't do what I wanted a laser printer to do. So, I am
better off selling it than griping about its defiences. Agreed?
 
A friend of mine, Ralph Mariano, sells the Panasonic KX-P4450 printer and
has used one with his Mega ST4 for 6 months. Ralph finally got an Atari SLM804
and it does run faster than the KX-P4450 for ST work.  So, I agree with that.
But, alot of people are buying Spectres and pc dittos and pc dittoIIs and
pc speed. And those folks will find the SLM804 lacking. I had my SLM804
for 20 months and never could fully utilize it under Spectre or pc ditto.
I don't expect Atari to address this anytime soon.
 
Did you know that *ALL* SLM804 emulators run in RAM that is overwritten by
the MAC OS when running Spectre?? And by MSDOS when running pc ditto. So, even
if Atari came out with a working Epson emulator for the SLM, it wouldn't run
under Spectre or pc ditto without help from Dave Small or Bill Teal. And Atari
has never even spoken about a Laser Jet emulator for the SLM. I wonder why?
So, in order for me to use the SLM804 it would have needed an Epson emulator,
and a Laser Jet emulator, but they would have had to be run in meory so that
MAC and MSDOS could use them. Which is *NOT* very likely.
 
I refuse to defend my position anymore. I am happy with my choice to sell the
SLM804. I will NOT say bad things about it in the future. I will learn to live
with my SLOW ( :-)) Panasonic KX-P4450 laser printer.
 
You, of course, must decide how you want to use a laser printer. If it is for
strictly ST work than by all means buy the SLM804. But if you want to use it
for Mac or MSDOS work, than consider another printer. OK?
 
Finally, did you know that there are PostScript clones out for both Mac and
MSDOS. I was just at Egghead Software+ and saw an IBM PS clone from an outfit
called LaserGo. It has PS plus 13 fonts. Also, there is Adobe Type Manager
for the Mac, with the same PS clone and 13 fonts. Hey, guess what? Never
supports the Atari laser printer. But both support the Panasonic KX-P4450.
So, I don't have to use UltraScript to get PS for my Panasonic when using
Mac or MSDOS programs. But the SLM804 eliminated this option from either
MAC OR MSDOS.
 
So, unless Atari releases a laser printer with a cpu, internal memory,
and builtin printer emulators, I am not interested in Atari laser printers.
And than the Atari lp had better be cheaper than a HP or a Panasonic to
compete.
 
--
 Richard E. Covert (covertr@gtephx)
  (602) - 581-4652
|  AG Communications Systems, Phoenix AZ   |
 UUCP: ?ncar!noao!asuvax | uunet!zardoz!hrc | att?!gtephx!covertr
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #757
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