INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Wed,  8 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 620
 
Today's Topics:
                      A Unix Box and it's Cost.
                         Hard Drive Problems
                     laser printer vs. hard drive
           Looking for notation programs (DMCS, Finale')...
                  Memory Partitioners: Please Advise
                         modems for atari st
                           Printing Files.
                   SURVEY!!! Europe/UK Replies !!!
                            TT's VME-slots
  Using UNIX on the TT (was TT vs 386 boxes and Apples...) (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 22:28:03 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: A Unix Box and it's Cost.
 
We have a problem with out mailer here.
I hope you don't get this more than once.
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / ATT3B@UCONNVM.BITNET (Martin Stein) /  2:57 pm  Nov
 5, 1989 */
 
> The biggest problem, however, of the TT is the price.
> ... So the TT will have
> a hard stand against '386 Unix machines, which are down to about $4000 *now*.
> In the newest Byte are adds for ?$5000 '486 machines! And that price will
> get lower, too.
 
You can get a 386 Unix box with hard disc and monochrome graphics monitor
for less than $2000 *NOW*. And 8 expantion slots.
 
A friend of mine got a 386 box with 4Meg Ram 800x600x16clours VGa
and 71Mb 18ms hard disk two floppies (1.2M and 1.44M) etc. for $3000.
 
You use unix for your hacking and some MSDOS compatibility windows
for standard  applications and other powerful software developed
for that silly chip which calls itself a microprocessor.
 
Also, Nobody has mentioned the amazingly low cost of extentions of a 386 box.
A hard disk, a floppy, I/O ports, modems, Memory...
Who can beat those prices?
***********************************************
 
Closer to the point:
 
Can Atari give a Unix box with
        - Many expantion slots
        - Lots of memory
        - High res color monitor
        - Fast and big hard disk
        - High Density floppies, I/O ports etc.
        -*Availability of the cheapest expantion boards around
        -*Availability of the most powerful software applications around
          BTW: Intel supports a binary standard for Unix V.4 running on 386
 
for much less than $3000 (as the 386 box I can get now)?
That is what I would call power without the price.
I wish they could do that. But how realistic is it to expect it?
 
In what aspect is a TT better than a 386 unix box? As a whole?
 
Thanasis
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard?
 Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!"      R. A. Heinlein
 
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu          (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP    : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 18:11:23 GMT
From: hp-ses!hpdml93!rona@hplabs.hp.com  (Ron Abramson)
Subject: Hard Drive Problems
 
Quite some time ago, Allan Pratt posted the following:
 
 
Is your accessory still in the root of your boot device? If so, I would
suspect it.  Try booting your system without the hard disk.  Turn off
your system and your hard disk, unplug the hard disk from the ST's DMA
port, and turn on your ST.  If it works fine, it's probably software.
 
Here's how to remove problem accessories and AUTO folder programs:
 
Turn off your ST, plug your hard disk in, and turn the hard disk on.
Put the disk called BOOT DISK in Drive A:.  Now turn on your ST, and
when the Drive A: light comes on, press and hold the "Alternate" key.
This will prevent the hard disk boot sequence.  Don't let go until after
the hard disk light has flickered once.  The hard disk will still
activate, because AHDI.PRG is in the AUTO folder of the BOOT DISK.  If
all goes well, you'll see the Desktop and Drive C: and you'll be able to
move the mouse.  Remove the offending accessory from Drive C: and
reboot.  Back to the drawing board.
 
I should have mentioned: one easy way to cause reboots is for a desk
accessory to cause a bus error, address error, or anything that gives
bombs.  Bombs make GEMDOS terminate the program currently running, which
is the Desktop if you haven't started anything else.  When the Desktop
terminates, the system reboots (because things are obviously very badly
screwed up).
 
 
END OF ALLAN'S POST
 
This technique has saved me a couple of times.  Thanks Allan!
 
Ron Abramson
rona@hpdml92.HP.COM
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 17:47:35 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net  (Hartmut Semken)
Subject: laser printer vs. hard drive
 
In article <248@mrcu> ya16@mrcu (Ian Powell) writes:
>I have found that by opening the back cover the main printer
>mechanisms is disabled just leaving the power supply on: hence
>keeping power on the control box.
>As far as I can see there is no problem with this method.
 
Well, I would not leave a laser printer mechanism open.
 
But a additional switch in line with the "door open" switch will do the
job and leave the printer closed.
 
hase
--
Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP
Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a
lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a
Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 14:36:49 GMT
From: zodiac!jtn@ames.arc.nasa.gov  (John Nelson)
Subject: Looking for notation programs (DMCS, Finale')...
 
Hello everyone.  I'm thinking seriously about buying a music notation
package that will speed up the process of well putting musical ideas
down in standard notation.  The two programs I am most familiar with
are Finale' (sexy) and DMCS (Deluxe Music Construction Kit).  Both run
on the Mac and I don't think that either runs on the Atari.  Also I
have a Mac at work so a Mac based package is probably what I'll want
and the two above programs look like the best around.
 
I'd appreciate opinions from others out there however.  Finale' is
particulary expensive so I'll most likely opt for DMCS.  That assumes
that I can just connect up a MIDI keyboard (or use Mac keyboard
equivelents) and type individual parts in and expect DMCS to
automagically provide all of the notation necessary.
 
Is there anything ou there on the Atari that comes close to either of
these two programs?  It will have to support postscript printing.  I
like nice high-quality output on 11x14 landscape mode paper...
suitable for organists.
 
Thanks for listening.  Looking forward to your recommendations.
 
 
 
 
--
 
John T. Nelson                  UUCP: sun!sundc!potomac!jtn
Advanced Decision Systems       Internet:  jtn@potomac.ads.com
1500 Wilson Blvd #512; Arlington, VA 22209-2401         (703) 243-1611
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 17:45:55 GMT
From: hp-ses!hpdml93!rona@hplabs.hp.com  (Ron Abramson)
Subject: Memory Partitioners: Please Advise
 
Since upgrading my 1040 ST to 4 megs, I've been thinking about getting
a memory partitioner to take advantage of the increased power.  I was
wondering if anyone could advise me.
 
After reading the June '89 review in START I got the impression that
Juggler II was the most bullet-proof and that Revolver was the most
full featured.  Bullet-proof is an especially appealing description
for any kind of program but Juggler II seems to lack some features
that would be most useful.  According to START:
 
 1. Juggler II demands that all partitions be the same size.  Since
    1 meg is occasionally inadequate, that probably means I'll be
    forced to have a pair of 2 meg partitions.  It would be far more
    useful to have partitions of 2,1 and 1 meg since 1 meg is
    adequate 90% of the time.
 
 2. Juggler II seems to lack the feature of saving the entire partition
    to a file.  This could be really handy for programs that take a
    long time to load like PageStream.  Revolver allows you to save the
    partition in a highly compressed format.
 
START's review of Revolver pointed out a couple of flaws but the program
was certainly more full featured.
 
I recently read somewhere that there is a new version of Juggler.  Does
anyone know if they've addressed either of the shortcomings I mentioned?
 
Also, do any of you use these programs?  What do you think?
 
If I don't hear from anyone I'll probably go with Revolver.
 
 
Thanks for your support,
 
Ron Abramson
rona@hpdml92.HP.COM
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 22:42:44 GMT
From: rti!ret@mcnc.org  (Raymond Thomas)
Subject: modems for atari st
 
Hello. I am getting ready to purchase a modem for an
atari 1040 st and would appreciate any advice on what
is available and what is good, (not necessarily the
same). I've seen some discussion of high speed modems
but my requirements are more modest, say 2400 baud.
Any assistance will be appreciated. Replies can be mailed
to ret@rti.rti.org.
Thanks.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 89 16:28:40 GMT
From: shlump.nac.dec.com!engage.enet.dec.com!oldtmr!wallace@decwrl.dec.com  (Ray
 Wallace)
Subject: Printing Files.
 
In article <8911080819.AA09086@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, AMEIJ@vax.oxford.ac.UK (Jan
 Ameij) writes...
                                ...
>file to a printer) from within a program, in C? The file is an HPLJ+ binary
                                ...
>fopen/fgetc/fputc/fclose keeps falling over (it sees end of files in the
Opening the file for binary will fix the premature end of file problem and
allow the correct data to be sent to the printer.
        source = fopen( "file.ext", "rb" );
        printer = fopen( "PRN:", "wb" );
Now just use fgetc() and fputc() to move the data from "source" to "printer".
---
Ray Wallace
                (INTERNET,UUCP) wallace@oldtmr.enet.dec.com
                (UUCP)          ...!decwrl!oldtmr.enet!wallace
                (INTERNET)      wallace%oldtmr.enet@decwrl.dec.com
---
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 89 16:07:32 GMT
From: mcsun!sunic!tut!hydra!viljanen@uunet.uu.net  (Lea Viljanen)
Subject: SURVEY!!! Europe/UK Replies !!!
 
In article <1683@cuphub.cup.edu> kar7481@cuphub.cup.edu (Dan
 Karbowsky;AtariEliteOfPghPa bbs412-384-5609) writes:
>The following information was compiled in a series of price surveys on ATARI
>products in Europe.....You MIGHT wish to PRINT THIS OUT before reading it!!!
>(after all, it IS 910-lines long!)
 
 ... stuff deleted ...
 
Harri Valkama says:
>Funny thing that you say so. But well I heard the day before yesterday
>from Atari import people here in Finland that they are starting to sell
>Stacy here in next month. I hope that this is not only sales scrap.
>Anyway I got Finnish prices of them. Here they are.
 
 ... stuff deleted ...
 
And Markku M?enp?? says:
>I called importer (Teknocomputer) and asked about stacey, TT, STE.
>They said that if there is enough interest they will start importing
>them. Person whom I talked with didn't sound very excited.
 
The above seen differences are due to importer war here in Finland.
TeknoComputer has a contract with Atari Sweden for an import licence
to be ended in -90. But last year (-88) wasn't too succesful for them
and >90% of the personnel left and formed last spring a new company;
X-Computer. Now the TeknoComputer has replaced its lost staff and has
continued marketing Atari.
 
But! The new X-Computer had contacted Atari Corp. USA and made a deal
with them concerning the exclusive import rights. So they claim they're
the One and Only Importer, but so does TeknoComputer.
 
This is just the basic outline of the story, details omitted.
Anyway, the situation here in Finland is far from clear.
I just wish these differences could be solved and instead of
fighting each other, the Atari minded ppl here in Finland could
start *marketing* Atari and stop Finland turning into Amiga
country.
 
>--
>
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Dan Karbowsky      kar7481@pitt!cuphub /   S U P P O R T  T H E  S T ! ! !
 |
> | 102 Lee Drive      ___________________/Call the ATARI ELITE of PITTSBURGH'S
 |
> | Belle Vernon, PA  / BBS (Forem-ST,fnet node 19)  at (412) 384-5609 at 300
 |
> | 15012   U.S.A.   / thru 19.2k baud 24 hrs./day 7-days/week   Mention this
 |
> |                / message at logon.                                         |
>
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
--
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen           ____     **** SENSUROITU ****
viljanen@finuha.bitnet       \  / . '     ****  CENSORED  ****
viljanen@cs.helsinki.fi       \/  |_      ' All this and brains too'
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 89 18:13:06 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net  (Hartmut Semken)
Subject: TT's VME-slots
 
In article <1214@atha.AthabascaU.CA> rwa@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Ross Alexander)
 writes:
>koreth@panarthea.ebay.sun.com (Steven Grimm) writes:
>>VME cards are much more expensive to make.
>Why?  The connectors?  OK, but the connectors represent perhaps only 10%
>of the manufacturing costs of an "interesting" card.  The rest of the
>technology is identical.
 
No.
The VME BUS is pretty hard to handle, since it is kind of a multimaster
BUS.
It does not make sense to build a 32-bit parallel port card for VME. An
Eternet controller would make sense.
 
hase
 
--
Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP
Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a
lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a
Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 89 06:01:50 GMT
From: unmvax!ogccse!blake!ramsiri@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Enartloc Nhoj)
Subject: Using UNIX on the TT (was TT vs 386 boxes and Apples...)
 
In article <1720@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> depeche@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Sam Alan
 EZUST) writes:
>According to an article a couple of months ago in ST-World, there was a
>review of the new TT computers, and in the article they said that only
>the TOWER model of the TT would ever be able to run UNIX, while the other
>version is NOT going to support UNIX. Does anyone know WHY the two TT
>computers are not software compatible?
 
 
 
If i am not mistaken, I believe Ken from Atari confirmed that the first
TT's WILL, in fact, be capable of running UNIX,  provided there is sufficient
RAM and a big enough HD.  He pointed out that the REPORTING was erroneous,
as is much of such reporting.
 
 
-kevin
ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 89 01:49:34 GMT
From: mcgill-vision!quiche!depeche@bloom-beacon.mit.edu  (Sam Alan EZUST)
Subject: Using UNIX on the TT (was TT vs 386 boxes and Apples...)
 
In article <23526@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Replying to Bob's message, Jouni Alkio says:
>
>>Do refer to the TT as nonstandard?
>>Is UNIX not a standard?!?! What about all the ST programs there are??
>
>Yes, the TT is non-standard.  While it has a VME card slot, the rest of
>the system is non-standard.  Atari Corp would have to obtain a VERY large
>market share before it could be considered a "standard".. this is not going
>to happen.   UNIX _is_ a standard, but Atari has already announced that UNIX
>will _not_ be shipped with the first TTs.  With their track record of
>"followup", I would not call a promise of UNIX a "standard".
>
I posted this a few weeks ago but absolutely NOBODY replied to it.
According to an article a couple of months ago in ST-World, there was a
review of the new TT computers, and in the article they said that only
the TOWER model of the TT would ever be able to run UNIX, while the other
version is NOT going to support UNIX. Does anyone know WHY the two TT
computers are not software compatible?
 
This sounds like a typical "gotcha" I'd expect from other computer companies
but not Atari!
 
someone please clarify this!
 
 S. Alan Ezust aka "Depeche Modem"       depeche@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca
 McGill University Computer Science      Disclaimer: I claim everything!
 Montreal, Quebec, Canada                (je pense que.... ) je me souviens
       "This kind of pornography is a matter of artistic creativity"
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #620
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