 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Thu, 30 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 725
 
Today's Topics:
                "kneecapping" and TOS piracy (2 msgs)
                            Chip Woes.....
                       Disappearing Disk Space
                     INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #708
                               Modula 2
                              OS9 for st
                    Prodigy run under Spectre GCR?
                            Shareware Mac
                          Still searching...
                     ST TeX questions (atari.mf)
                         Text in a GEM Window
                               TOS 1.4
                            Vapourware!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 19:03:38 GMT
From: uvm-gen!pegram@uunet.uu.net  (pegram r)
Subject: "kneecapping" and TOS piracy
Message-ID: <1349@uvm-gen.UUCP>
 
From article <434@opus.NMSU.EDU>, by whack@nmsu.edu (Warren J Hack):
>
> In the previous post, it was commented that what was needed
> was some commitment by developers to improve their products
> and for there to be a wider variety of products produced.
> Some products were suggested including SLM drivers, graphics
> packages, and so forth.
> I would like to comment that some of the need for products like
> the Spectre GCR and PC-Speed(and others like them) arises from
> the fact that there is software available on those machines which
> are in ways better developed than ST software.  I congratulate
> the developers of the emulators for making that software available
> to ST users, but I must ask software developers to fill in the
> gaps with ST software.
 
        ?specific request deleted?
        Hear, Hear! All I've been seeing is flames about hardware and
        the way Atari is run.  We can do little about those things, but
        isn't there something we can do to turn around the small and
        shrinking (at least in the U.S.A.) applications software base?
        I can't find software titles that were out years ago, e.g. some
        compilers, an on-the-fly keyboard macro program, an outliner-word
        processor like More on the Mac (all there ever was was Hippo Concept),
        and new ones are not out there replacing them.  If this doesn't
        change soon I may be forced to go to permanent emulation (haven't
        done it at all - yet ;-?).  Constructive suggestions desired.
 
> Let's hear it for some variety and quality.
>
> Warren J. Hack               Dept. of Astronomy, New Mexico State
> whack@nmsu.edu               "I'm just a poor grad. student"
 
 
Bob Pegram (pegram@griffin.uvm-gen.uvm.edu)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 19:12:32 GMT
From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!psueea!!kirkenda@beaver.cs.washington.edu
 (Steve Kirkendall)
Subject: "kneecapping" and TOS piracy
Message-ID: <2031@psueea.UUCP>
 
In article <8911280802.AA18983@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV
 writes:
>Why Not, I ask?  If people want to burn their own ROMS, why not let
>them?  Atari should even provide diagnostic files that can be run to
>test the validity of user-generated ROMS.
 
I can certainly understand why Atari protects their ROMs...
 
They do it for the same reason that Apple protects theirs.  If Mac ROMs were
freely redistributable, then Mac emulators would be EVERYWHERE!  What would
that do to Apple?
 
Ah, you're thinking "Yes, but who in their right mind would want to emulate
an ST?"  Amiga owners, for one.  About a month ago, there was a lot of traffic
on comp.sys.amiga regarding a P.D. Atari ST emulator which DIDN'T WORK!
It seems that the original version of the emulator (which was distributed on
disk) had illegal copies of Atari ROMs stored on "unused" sectors of the
disk.  When somebody uploaded it, they forgot to upload the illegal ROMs.
So anybody who downloaded the emulator got a useless package.
 
Some people wondered if they were using it wrong.  Some were angry because they
had gone to a lot of trouble and still hadn't managed to steal anything.  Some
jokingly said "Yep, real Atari's work that way, too."
 
Nobody said "This is wrong.  We *shouldn't* copy Atari ROMs like this."
 
>Why Not, I ask?  If people want to burn their own ROMS, why not let
>them?  Atari should even provide diagnostic files that can be run to
>test the validity of user-generated ROMS.
 
Because they can't trust us to use them as Atari intended.
Because they have a reputation to protect (such as it is).
Because they don't want to support a product that doesn't earn them money.
Because copyrights can be lost if they aren't enforced.
Because parts of the ROMs are really copyrighted by DRI, not Atari.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Kirkendall, kirkenda@jove.cs.pdx.edu, uunet!tektronix!psueea!jove!kirkenda
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 19:03:14 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzaz!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (HC Johnson)
Subject: Chip Woes.....
Message-ID: <870@lzaz.ATT.COM>
 
In article <89332.112515JJL101@PSUVM.BITNET>, JJL101@PSUVM.BITNET (J.J. Lehett)
 writes:
>
>     I know this may be an old topic....but I really would like to stop having
> to drop my ST before I boot it to work properly  :)  I know its a looses
> chip problem (at least pretty sure it is), but don't know which it is.
pull an reseat the square chips.
also consider tightening their sockets (carefully).
 
Occationally, a EZram needs to be pulled out of the MMU and reseated.
 
 
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
att!lzaz!hcj
hcj@lzaz.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 19:07:44 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzaz!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (HC Johnson)
Subject: Disappearing Disk Space
Message-ID: <871@lzaz.ATT.COM>
 
In article <1989Nov29.035921.1943@agate.berkeley.edu>,
 ladasky@codon3.berkeley.edu (John Ladasky;1021 Solano No. 2;528-8666) writes:
>
>       I just had something terribly unpleasant happen to me... I'm using
> Dr T's Copyist to assemble PostScript files of my music.  For those of you
>
> into the process, each of my disks came up with a "file creation or write
> error" (I love how specific this message is, too).  That was when I checked
> the disk space.
when a process opens and is writing a file doesn't close it properly
the directory info is not correct but the fats are lost.
 
I use fsck (posted here sometime)  to recover the space from my hard disk.
 
I guess just reformatting is the best for floppies.
 
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
att!lzaz!hcj
hcj@lzaz.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 23:15:57 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!aplcen!jhunix!ins_bac@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Ajay Choudhri)
Subject: INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #708
Message-ID: <3446@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>
 
>Also, does anyone know of any Atari Dealers In New Jersey?
 Well up ny where Atari Explorer is published(Mendham) there is an excellent
Mom+Pop outfit called Gemini Computers. he sells only Atari Hardware
and A ton of Software.  Anyway specifically it is in Morristown and
he does have a good clientele(sp?).
His support is great, but he cant compete with a huge outift like J&R
 Musicworldin NYC. (they are backordered so good luck with them)
 
>                                Frank Rachel
>                                             Bitnet:FRACHEL@UMIAMI
 
-Ajay Choudhri
ins_bac@Jhunix.bitnet
btw if you are an NJ ST owner in the 201 area code, get in touch.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 89 00:35+0100
From: Ritzert%DMZRZU71.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Modula 2
Message-ID: <891129233546.307670@DMZRZU71-UNI-MAINZ--GERMANY>
 
> Although this translation has gone through a layer of Dutch, I still
> think it is a faithful one. Note that some of the conditions imply others.
 
Yes indeed, it is faithful. And translated precisely.
 
Michael Ritzert
mjr@dmzrzu71.bitnet
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 22:53:46 GMT
From: pyrnj!esquire!wynkoop@rutgers.edu  (Brett Wynkoop)
Subject: OS9 for st
Message-ID: <1640@esquire.UUCP>
 
Greeting-
     I have heard there is a very good port of OS9 for the ST in europe.
Who did this port and where can I contact them?  Has anyone tried this or
any other port of OS9 on the portable ST?  Any info on the European port
would be helpful as I have some instilations to support in the UK and
France.
 
     Please reply to me directly, or to comp.os.os9 as I do not read
comp.sys.atari.st
 
 
-Brett
 
uucp.......cmcl2!esquire!wynkoop  (wynkoop@esquire.dpw.com)
voice .....212-266-0741
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 19:10:30 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzaz!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (HC Johnson)
Subject: Prodigy run under Spectre GCR?
Message-ID: <872@lzaz.ATT.COM>
 
Has anyone run the Prodogy info system for MAC on Spectre GCR?
 
 
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
att!lzaz!hcj
hcj@lzaz.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Nov 89 03:11:36 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!nemeth@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Gabe Nemeth)
Subject: Shareware Mac
Message-ID: <1989Nov30.031136.14692@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
 
In article <5694@umd5.umd.edu> matthews@umd5.umd.edu (Mike Matthews) writes:
>In article <3870@netmbx.UUCP> hase@netmbx.UUCP (Hartmut Semken) writes:
>>>I kinda hope that this shareware Mac thing specifically checks for illegal
 ROMs.
>>How?
>>I suspect Pit to read in the ROMs from a standard ROM cartridge (this
>>simple thing with 2 sockets and a 7400 that plugs to the cartridge port
>>and offers 128 KBytes of ROM); it would be impossible to tell original
>>chips from copies in EPROM.
>>But it would leave responsibility to the user; the author of the
>>software does not suggest the user to do anything illeagal...
>>
>>hase
>>--
>>Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP
>
>'Impossible' is a word best left out of computer hacker's works.  Dave Small
>checks for illegal ROMs/EPROMs in  his Spectre 128 and Spectre GCR cartridges.
>ROMs and EPROMS aren't EXACTLY the same, in some manner.  Perhaps he tests the
>speed of retrieval.  Perhaps he tests some sort of electrical property, such
>as resistance or somesuch (I know nothing about this, but it's just an idea).
>
>If the author of the software invites people to illegally copy ROMs or whatnot,
>then 99 times out of 100, the user will copy the ROMs.  Especially if you HAVE
>to.
>
>Mike
 
The LEGAL "ROMS" my mac uses are part number 23512 - this is a windowless
eprom (OTP) version of the 27512.  Therefore it IS an eprom physically but
since you can't erase it it is a rom (prom).  Dave small inverts a couple
of lines on his cartridge to deter people from making their own and
copying his software (or using the magic sac!).  I guess his software
re-inverts the inverted data as it is read off the cartridge.
/leonard
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 22:27:46 GMT
From: att!chinet!saj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: Still searching...
Message-ID: <1989Nov29.222746.2044@chinet.chi.il.us>
 
>In article <1830@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>>Atari Corp. policy is that we offer developer support to registered
>>developers, not to end users.  I know how you feel about the issue,
>>and I'm sorry if you feel "left out."  It seems to me, though, that it
>>just wouldn't be cost effective for us to offer the level of technical
>>support we give to developers to end users.
 
I'm still carping.  If the TOS 1.4 documentation is indicative of what Atari
documentation is going to be like in the future, it's a gigantic step in a
good direction.  But I still think that making a listing of ROM contents, as
of some major freeze date, with comments, available to registered developers
would be a GOOD THING.  Extra charges, extra confidentiality agreements and
big red warnings "This is provided only as a supplement to <other documents>;
Atari guarantees to break any program dependent on OS features not promised
elsewhere" would be acceptable.  Although I also don't see any need to make
such a thing confidential.  I do see the need for warnings.
                                    Steve J.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Nov 89 03:42:56 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!ists!stpl!tyler@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Tyler IVANCO)
Subject: ST TeX questions (atari.mf)
Message-ID: <201@stpl.UUCP>
 
The file `atari.mf' is packed with the various previewer packages that
we've distributed.  Its purpose is to provide those with metafont, the
setup information required to generate the screen fonts.  It is not a
TeX/LaTeX file.  Apparently, metafont is available for the ST series.
 
                                                        Tyler
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 89 21:38:08 EST
From: David Megginson <MEGGIN@vm.epas.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Text in a GEM Window
Message-ID: <89Nov29.214314est.58002@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca>
 
There are some fast and nasty shortcuts, but you _should_ put text in
a GEM window by calling v_gtext() (or something like that) _only_ in
your redraw function, or when you have to draw a new character in the
window. _Never_ draw to a window unless
 
         1) You check to make sure that it is the top window
         2) You walk through the wind_get() rectangle list, and clip
            to each of those rectangles while you redraw the window.
 
It's difficult. The AES will tell you when to redraw different areas
of your window, and you have to be ready to respond. Keep track of
the text in a separate array or linked list, so that you know what to
put in the window when redraw time arrives.
 
        David Megginson, Centre for Medieval Studies, Toronto
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 22:54:43 GMT
From: sdcc6!sdcc10!cs161fca@ucsd.edu  ( )
Subject: TOS 1.4
Message-ID: <5448@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
 
In article <1825@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>(I don't really know that much about the subs: for example, I think
>they order ROMs from Atari Taiwan.  The point is that Atari Corporation
>
>============================================
>Opinions expressed above do not necessarily    -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
>reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else.     ...ames!atari!apratt
 
 
 
Just curious.  The ST is made in Taiwan.  But is the ST sold in
Taiwan, or Atari Taiwan is just a company making computers for
exports (to the US and Canada and Europe?)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Nov 89 14:21:04 GMT
From:
 mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watmath!watserv1!watdragon!tiger!achowe@t
 ut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (anthony howe)
Subject: Vapourware!!!
Message-ID: <18784@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
 
>In article <24502@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>[lots of stuff about GEnie and Neil Harris, the thrust of which is that he
> thinks Atari lied to him]
>
 
Is there a way to modify the read-news kill-file so as to kill by author
rather than by subject? I'm rather sick of this person and the band
width that has been waste on such topics!
 
- ant
  achowe@tiger.waterloo.edu     | "It is hard to make the world go away
   _     -|-|_   _              |  when it has decided to notice you."
  (_\ |\| | | | (_) |\| \/      |  - Spock's World
                     ___/       |                        disclaimer...
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #725
*****************************************
