INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Sun, 22 Oct 89       Volume 89 : Issue 547
 
Today's Topics:
                                <None>
                        Obscure Bug in Uniterm
                 SPECTRE GCR:  it's heeeerrrreee....
                      Spectre GCR availability?
                       TT vs 386 box and flames
                      TT vs 386 boxes and Apple
                 TT vs 386 boxes and Apples (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 17:43:25 GMT
From:
 mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watmath!ria!uwovax!4224_5132@tut.cis.ohio
-state.edu  (Andrew Semple)
Subject: <None>
 
In article <517@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, stailey@iris613.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ken
 Stailey) writes
> The only good FORTRAN is a dead FORTRAN.
>
 
Tell that to my professors...
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Semple                               ads@uwovax.uwo.ca
2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science      Andrew.Semple@uwovax.uwo.ca
The University of Western Ontario           Semple@uwovax.BITNET
London, Ontario
Canada
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 89  20:46 BST
From: Jan Ameij <AMEIJ%vax.oxford.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK>
Subject: Obscure Bug in Uniterm
 
Dear Pals,
 
I have recently been using my beloved atari as a terminal, with Uniterm v2.0c,
to enter a C program which happens to need the word OBSERVER fairly often.
I noticed that if I type <shift>S <shift><anything else> too fast, Uniterm
runs the string I have assigned to F1, which is my dial-up routine for the
Cluster here. Has anyone else noticed this bizarre sort of behaviour?
 
Jan Ameij,
Oxford University Department of Applied Metaphysics,
ameij@uk.ac.oxford.vax
 
PS Occasionally Uniterm blats into help screen with the menu for "transfer"
dangling down and no cursor, and needs a reboot. Anyone met this?
 
PPS I still think Uniterm is the best terminal program I have seen, and I
include the ROM's in DEC VT340's
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 OCT 89 10:56:24 CST
From: Z4648252 <Z4648252%SFAUSTIN.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject: SPECTRE GCR:  it's heeeerrrreee....
 
    An unexpected joy arrived at my location this week, the Spectre GCR.
And yes...it is all as advertised and talked about.  Sound works GREAT,
and the floppy access on real Mac disks is ok, particularly in speed.
Indeed, one MACer friend on mine said that the floppy access is faster
on the GCR than it is on his SE.  Overenthusiasm?  Nope, it really is.
    Improvements over the Spectre 128 from the "Dumb Joe End User" point
of view:  Ability to run System 6.03, actual usable sound via SoundMaster,
Mac floppy use, right mouse button (used as a shift key) use, Turbo Disk
Mode.  Of course there are scads of bug fixes and other things that
are largely unseen to Joe End User.
    Turbo Disk Mode needs to be mentioned.  For those of us using that
awful Seagate 296n hard drive mechanism, this is a real plus.  The 296n
is respectively fast, in spite of its ROM bug that chokes it, but in
order to use it with the Spectre, it sometimes needs to go into slow
SCSI mode as determined by Spectre's setup menu.  Although Dave says
that slow SCSI is not THAT slow, it is noticeable to me.  Idiot that I
am, I like to keep things pushed til they fry.
    Page 133 of the manual shows a listing of the special function keys
that include access to the Turbo Disk Mode.  With this mode, one can
turn it on and off at will.  For those of you not experiencing the lovely
problem of the 296n, what happens is that you will be informed that a
file can either not be read or written to.  With Turbo Disk Mode, all
will be right with the world.  It is quite rare, at least for me, for
the problem to creep up.
    Mac floppy access needs to be mentioned also.  As most on the net
know, this poor Mega2 of mine has been fried many times due to everything
from lightning crashes to 'lord only knows what'.  Shame that I didn't
take advantage of the old exchange rate that Atari had on their equipment.
Shame on Atari!  Their prices were the main reason that I elected to go
with Atari rather than Apple.
    Anyway, my Mega floppy reads Mac disks just fine.  It is a known fact
that my floppy mechanism is all but brain dead.  But, it still reads the
Mac floppies!  Insert a Mac disk in, ANY Mac disk, whether it is direct
from Apple or from a real Mac.  On my Mega, it takes two passes (about
a total of three seconds is consumed) and then I'm reading Mac files.
Once the directory is up, then access is instantaneous and FAST!  The only
problem that I'm encountering is my ability to write to a Mac disk.  My
near brain dead floppy drive just doesn't like that, in spite of an adjustment
included on the GCR.  For me, at least for now, this is a minor problem.
Reading the disks are mainly what I need.
    Ah, two other features need to be mentioned:  LAUNCH.PRG and
the new TRANSVERTER.  LAUNCH.PRG allows you to literally /AUTO/ launch
Spectre without your having to go through the Spectre utility program.
LAUNCH reads the configuration file and shoots you directly into "Mac"
mode.  Slick, eh?
    TRANSVERTER is improved, allowing direct reads of Mac floppies (MFS
only) and increased partition number access--a big plus.
    IMpressed?  You betcha!  If you are still waiting on Spectre GCR,
hang in there...it is on the way.  Spectre GCR is an incredible product
and an incredible improvement over Spectre 128.  EVEN THE MANUAL IS GREAT--
YEP, IT IS IMPROVED.
 
Larry Rymal:  |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 18:34:26 GMT
From: iris!kerchen@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu  (Paul Kerchen)
Subject: Spectre GCR availability?
 
In article <8910220705.AA04829@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> BHOLMES@WAYNEST1.BITNET
 (Brian Holmes) writes:
>Is anyone shipping Spectre GCR yet?
>
 
Yes, I just saw it here in the Davis (Calif.) area for $250 (+tax) and $150
for the 128K roms.  The dealer had two or three of them.  He also had
the Magic Sac+ for $35 (64K roms included).  A bit of a difference in
price, I must say.
 
 
 
Paul Kerchen                            | kerchen@iris.ucdavis.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 17:41:14 GMT
From:
 mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watmath!ria!uwovax!4224_5132@tut.cis.ohio
-state.edu  (Andrew Semple)
Subject: TT vs 386 box and flames
 
In article <CMM.0.88.624991946.cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>,
 cmm1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Christopher M Mauritz) writes:
 
> Well, sure!  That lil' TT will save you tons of money!  As a matter of
> fact, you won't have to spend a dime on it cause you'll probably never
> see it.  Now that's what I call a bargain.  Hehe, you could put that
> 2.5K in the bank and earn interest.  (Gee, Atari is actually doing us
> all a favor...How nice of them :-))  This whole argument for the
> cheapness aspect of the TT is like saying "Hey, why should I waste my
> money on a Corvette now, when I hear through the grapevine that Hyundai
> is working on this new nifty sportscar?  Of course, I've never seen one
> and the company only produces cheap cars now with little or no support.
>  What the hell, sounds like a bargain to me?"
 
I have no idea why you think the TT is 'vapourware'.  Didn't you see the
article in Z*net on how everyone who saw it in England loved it.  I mean
there was one right in front of them!
 
Back off!
 
If you require further clarification, I will dig out my copy and transcribe
it so that you may be convinced.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Semple                               ads@uwovax.uwo.ca
2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science      Andrew.Semple@uwovax.uwo.ca
The University of Western Ontario           Semple@uwovax.BITNET
London, Ontario
Canada
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 13:40:39 GMT
From: eru!luth!sunic!tut!hydra!hylka!jalkio@bloom-beacon.mit.edu  (INFINITY
 EVERYWHERE)
Subject: TT vs 386 boxes and Apple
 
In article <4145@blake.acs.washington.edu>, ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
 (Enartloc Nhoj) writes:
> In article <1035@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Varsinainen sikapossu
 kuoli t?n??n.) writes:
>>In article <28320@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>, stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Stephen
 Whitney) writes:
>>>
>>
>>a MAC with a ST faster than a real MAC. I hope (and believe) that the TT
>>will be the first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage.
>>
>>difficult to make a computer that is as good but many times cheaper!
>>on this planet....
>>
>>                              Jouni
This article (which includes that text) wasn't really intended to be sent.
It was the first time I used MICROEMACS-editor, so I must have made
something wrong when the message really did somehow get into rnews.
I wrote a new one and it is the valid one.
>
>
> I originally simply posted an ad I saw for a 25Mhz 386 box, 8 expansion
> slots, VGA color high res monitor and card, 60 meg 1:1 hard drive, floppy,
> keyboard, 1meg RAM  for $1995.00 ... and correct me if I am wrong,
> there are several flavors of UNIX to choose from that should indeed
> run on this machine.  I don't understand why people such as Jouni
> say:  " first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage; ... as good
> but MANY TIMES cheaper..".  Does Jouni know something that I don't
> know?  Has ATARI announced a price for the TT?  Is it MANY TIMES cheaper
> than $1995.00 ?  WIll ATARI support their Unix SYS V as well as they
> have supported TOS?  Hmm...I guess only ATARI can tell us for sure,
> and since their lips are sealed, it's hard to read them....
>
The price comparisons I've are between the Apples and Ataris because
they are very much same technology. I admit that such a 386-system is
quite cheap.
 
Atari HAS announced a price for the TT in Germany: 6500DM for a TT with
a 30MB hard-disk and a monochrome VGA-monitor and 2 MB RAM.
 
I have also read that Atari would announce a TTP in England - cost: 1300
pounds with 1280x960monitor and a 60MEG hard-disk. (This is not as sure
as the German information, though.)
 
I have also read that atari would announce a version of Unix for about
300 dollars.
 
I know that Atari supports Europe more than the US. I can imagine why...
 
 
                        Jouni -not flaming, only telling facts- Alkio
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 17:31:07 GMT
From: unmvax!nmtsun!scksnsr@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Sean Kelly)
Subject: TT vs 386 boxes and Apples
 
cmm1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Christopher M Mauritz) writes:
        Well, unless you are a diehard Atari fan (I know, there are still a few
  left), I would advise you to buy the 25mhz 386 now (if you do indeed
  need it now).  Besides, if you want to use it for work you would be
  much better off with an industry standard 386 rather than the TT (if it
  ever does hit the market). The 68030 is such a nice mpu compared
  to the Intel mpu's.
 
That's for certain.  The context is much nicer!
 
  [...]
  Besides, who needs another workstation with non-industry
  standard 16 bit slots.
 
Got that right.
 
<1049@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi
(Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t?n??n.) responds:
        What makes the 386 an industry standard? As far as I know, there are
  very few programs especially for it. The more people keep supporting only
  the PC-line (XT, AT, 386...), the more technology has to go along the
  same traditional tracks.
 
I don't know about Finland, but here there are more PC's on desktops for the
small business and home user than loose paperclips :-).  Seriously, the
amount of PC's abound is sickening.  If it's not an industry standard,
tell me what is.  Besides, you said more people supporting one line,
the more technology has to go along the same tracks ... doesn't this
sound like industry standardization?
 
(Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t?n??n.) continues:
        I have got every program I've needed for my Atari ST this far. Usually
  they are more user-friendly than their PC-counterparts. I think it is stupid
  to speculate about if the TT is coming or not. They have already introduced
  it in Germany. (And if it wouldn't come, Atari could soon be in bankrupt
  or something...)
 
I also have just about every program I've needed for my Atari ST, too.
Almost every.  There are things for our SUNs that I wouldn't mind having,
but my biggest hang up is the fact that the same programs available on
other machines are so much more powerful, nicer, AVAILABLE, and supported.
 
If Atari's listening, Varsinainen's made a good point within parentheses
above.  I'm not sure if bankrupt is the word.  Maybe lynched by its user
base (excluding the fanatics).
 
Richard Covert writes:
  Not only are 80386 PC computers available there have been some really great
  prices in misc.forsale for 25 MHZ 80386 computers with 1024 x 768 x 16colors
  color graphics. something beyond the power of a TT, I believe.
 
(Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t?n??n.) responds:
  How come that is beyond the power of a TT? For even the ST is NOW
  available a graphics card with resolution 1280x1024 with 16 colours from
  palette of 262144. And this is not the only one. I doubt a 25MHz 386 is
  any faster than a TT.
 
Or just get a SUN 3/260 or a Sparcstation, a blow both away.  Much more
expensive, true.  But SunOS UNIX is truly superb.  Also, I know of a few
25MHz 386's that could beat a TT.
 
Richard Covert continues:
  Also, the ads
  I have seen indicate that the 80386 PCs have 32 bit, 16 bit, and 8 bit
  motherboard busses, so can use a whole spectrum of IBM PC plugin boards
  (things like hard disk on a card, internal modems, additional serial i/o,
  eprom burners, geez just all sorts of things that Atari customers are too
  cheap to want to buy!!).
 
To which Varsiinainen replies:
  What's so important in having INTERNAL modems, etc... You can buy all
  off those devices for ST's and TT's, too.
 
Just take a look at my desk, and you'll see the advantage of INTERNAL stuff.
I've got my 1040 sitting on it.  A huge cable comes out for my external disk
drive, which is also propped up vertically against the wall behind the desk;
I've got another cable coming out to the Atari EXTERNAL harddrive that's too
big for 20 Meg, and sounds like a 747 during takeoff.  Then I've got another
cable coming out to my EXTERNAL modem.  And, finally, cables going out to
my printer and my two monitors.  It's a mess!  If my 1040 were more like
a Mega (which is also too small), and if I could put the harddrive, diskdrive,
and modem all inside it on CARDS, I'd just have to worry about hiding the
cable for the printer---and that's easy by just throwing it behind the bloody
CPU box with its nice INTERNAL cards.
 
Covert continues:
  So, that kinda leaves Atari and the VaporWare TT/P (for Plastic, sheez what
  a great name for a computer. A Plastic computer. Oh boy!!) for someone else
  to buy!!
 
To which Varsinainen replies:
 Can't you make up better arguments that ones that are based on a computer's
 name?
 
Richard is not saying the the name of the bloody thing is something that
should be taken into account.  He's merely making an editorial comment
about Atari's choice to call the TT/P the `Plastic.'  I agree with him:
Oh boy! A Plastic computer!
 
Chris writes:
  Now that I've got my own little 68030 worksation (named after a popular
  red fruit <grin>) and have it actually in front of me (yes, you can
  actually see and touch it!).
 
Varsinainen says:
  Why compare an Apple with 68030 to an ST?!?! Compare a MAC to a ST and
  compare their price, too! A ST costs only less than a third of a rival
  MAC, at least here in Finland. You can still emulate a MAC with a ST
  even faster than a real MAC. Where does all that extra money Apple takes go?
 
Chris is not comparing an Apple II to an ST.  In fact, I don't know of any
Apple II that has a 68030.  He OBVIOUSLY means his Mac.  Get a clue :-)
And my ST can NEVER beat the nearby Mac II in terms of speed or graphics.
 
Richard says:
  So, from past experience we can expect a CHEAP 68030 machine from Atari
  that won't be expandable and will be margin in other aspects.
 
Sounds right.  When I was still a fanatic, I was convinced that the Atari
was the most powerful computer out for the price.  For only a few hundred
dollars more (I had the money) I could have gotten (ack) an Amiga (oh no!).
Or something that has support.  Dare I say it?  Yes, a Mac.
 
Varsinainen replies:
  How come won't be expandable??? You can even expand a ST very well, even
  if it doesn't actually have ANY card slots... By the way, remember MIDI,
  too.
 
Sure I guess you can expand an ST `very well,' but it isn't easy.  You just
don't lift the cover a drop in a card.  You lift the cover, desolder a chip,
patch a jumper, solder a socket, pay through the nose for parts, and labor
if you don't know how.
 
I remember MIDI.  That's about the only thing Atari's got going for the ST
line.
 
I avoid Intel like the plague, but my next Motorola box will NOT be Atari.
 
Yes, the ST's are inexpensive.  That's great.  If you want it now, though,
forget it.  And support?  I've sent out all the warranty cards I could
from my Atari stuff, and I've never gotten a single brochure from Atari,
or a newsletter, or anything.  I wonder if there's anybody back there.
Authorized repair centers?  We don't need no stinking authorized repair
centers!
 
Just remember:
 
        (Power Without the Price) = (You Get What You Pay For)
 
Pipe flames to /dev/null.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Oct 89 19:17:12 GMT
From: oahu!stephen@cs.ucla.edu  (Stephen Whitney)
Subject: TT vs 386 boxes and Apples
 
FYI, I just read on GEnie that the name of the "TT" is to be the MegaStation.
Sounds a lot nicer that TT.  Give it a name that's at least a real word.
 
 
 
 
Steve Whitney   "It's never _really_ the last minute"       (())_-_(())
UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student                                | (* *) |
Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu              UCLA Bruin-->    ?  \_@_/  ?
GEnie:    S.WHITNEY                                           `-----'
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #547
*****************************************
=========================================================================