INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Thu,  2 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 599
 
Today's Topics:
                    Atrocious Atari dealer (LONG)
                        GNU C and sizeof(int)
                       official tos 1.4 release
                       TT's VME-slots (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 3 Nov 89 00:57:15 GMT
From: pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!jlemon@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Jonathan Lemon)
Subject: Atrocious Atari dealer (LONG)
 
This article is a flame, intended as a warning to others, specifically
those who are considering buying from Microworld.
 
You have been warned.
 
 
Last December I decided to sell my XT clone and get a Atari.  I went to
to various stores comparing prices for a Mega 2 system.  It was NOT my
intention to buy a computer right then - I still had to sell my XT first,
but I wanted to know how much they cost, what each store had to offer, etc..
 
I went to Microworld. (on University Ave, here in Berkeley.  They are also
known as Zephyr via mail order, hence the national distribution.  Zephyr is
actually the now defunct T-shirt company next door to them, but I digress.)
 
I talked with the owner of the shop, (I forgot his name - the guy with the
hair implants. :-) ) and he seemed to be quite understanding.  He even offered
to take my XT as part of a trade-in deal for the Mega.  I decided not to
do that, since I could get more money selling it elsewhere.  He was selling
the Mega 2 for about $1300, I can't quite recall exactly.  He told me that
he also sells software for 20% off list price, so I thought that it would be
a good place to buy my software packages.
 
A little later I found another business (Computer Spectrum of Burlingame) that
was selling the machine for $1099.  This was a pretty low price, so I went
down there, and got one of the last machines they had in stock.  I didn't
buy any software because I figured I could get a better deal at Microworld.
(After all, I _am_ a poor, starving college student! :-) )
 
The next day, I went back to Microworld with my fiancee and said that I
wanted to buy a word processing package, could he please show us the
differences between WordUp and FirstWord+?  He showed us WordUp.  I asked
about FirstWord+, and he grumbled that he didn't have it set-up on his hard
drive, he would have to install it.
 
45 minutes later, after waiting for him to install it between all the phone
calls and other customers that he was handling, he has it set up.  We take
a look at both packages and decide that FirstWord+ would be better for us.
(I liked WordUp, but my fiancee liked FirstWord+, so no flames on this, ok?)
 
I was also impressed with the fact that you could import .img files into
your document, and asked if I could import Degas pictures also.  (I told
him that I was also planning to get Degas Elite)  He explained that I
couldn't do that directly, and then proceeded to explain what degasnap
did.  He then went ahead and very clumsily attempted to show me the features
of Degas Elite, over my protestations that I understood what the various
options of the program did.
 
We gathered up the two packages and a modem cable that I needed, and went
to the counter to pay.  He wrote up the sale, complete with the 20% discount,
and then asked me whether I wanted a Mega 2 or a Mega 4.  I was startled by
his question, since I thought I had told him that I already bought my computer
elsewhere.  I apologized and told him that I had already aquired a Mega
computer elsewhere, at a lower price.
 
He then proceeded to tell me that the 20% discount only applied to people
who bought their hardware from his store.  (Just how he keeps track of who
buys hardware from his store, I don't know)  I was tempted to take my business
elsewhere right then and there, but the price wasn't that bad, and I _did_
take up his time when he showed me the software.  (Side note:  I believe in
supporting your local dealer - going to a dealer for a demonstration and/or
explanation and then purchasing via mail-order is one of the best ways to
drive a dealer out of business)
 
He scribbled out a receipt and then wrote out the charge slip.
 
Now, here comes my big mistake.  (I learned!)  I signed the charge slip
and left, without examining the prices too carefully.
 
Once home, I was filing the receipt away when I noticed that the total on
the receipt and the total on the charge slip didn't match...  Upon closer
inspection, I discovered that I couldn't decipher the receipt at all!
 
The next day, I took the receipt back and told him I couldn't read it, could
he please write me another copy in slightly more legible handwriting?  He
looked _real_ uncomfortrable, and it took him 4 tries as he fiddled around
with the prices to get them to match the total.
 
Upon examination of what he wrote, I discovered that what I thought was a $147
total was actually a $197 total!  (You know - writing a 4 so that it can't be
distinguished from a 9. That explains the damned charge slip)  I also found
out that he charged me a $50 "consulting" fee for his awkward demonstration
of the software packages.
 
Grr... was I mad!  And there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it, except
to _READ_ what the hell I sign in the future.  And there is nothing that will
coerce me to ever set foot in that store again.
 
But this isn't all...  When I got the actual bill from my creditcard company,
I found that the bill was higher than the total on my charge slip.  Well, this
I could take care of, and sent a copy of the receipt and a letter of
explanation off to the creditcard company.  Why an explanation?  Well, it
also appears that the name of the business on the charge slip was Zephyr,
while the business name on the receipt was MicroWorld.  I got the difference
credited to my mastercard account, that was the only bright spot in this
entire business.
 
Now, before you think that I am just griping about the fact that I was a
lousy consumer, and quote "caveat emptor" at me, I am not alone in my
complaints.  I have had quite a bit of mail from other netters who are
equally disgusted with the way MicroWorld does business.  (I am equally
disgusted with the low-resolution dot-matrix picture of a nude woman that
is included with their advertisement on the back of the local user group's
magazine)
 
In conclusion, I would strongly advise staying away from this company, as
their business practices are questionable, their prices average, and they
don't seem to have very many satisfied customers.
--
Jonathan     ...ucbvax!cory!jlemon    or    jlemon@cory.Berkeley.EDU
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 3 Nov 89 00:12:19 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!um-math!hyc@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Howard Chu)
Subject: GNU C and sizeof(int)
 
In article <30975@watmath.waterloo.edu> rbutterworth@watmath.waterloo.edu (Ray
 Butterworth) writes:
>This reminds me of something I've been wondering about for a while.
>Why does GCC on the ST have 32 bit ints?
 
For compatibility - using the 32 bit int mode, I can take just about
any source file off a Sun, Usenet (comp.sources.unix), etc., type
"cc" or "make" and have a running executable without ever having to
edit a single source file.
 
>Surely 16 is the obvious size considering it has 16 bit memory access.
 
Yep. So obvious, in fact, that every version of ST GCC that's been
posted has been sent out with *both* 16 *and* 32 bit libraries. What
are you complaining about?
>
>Has anyone made a 16-bit GCC and library and done a comparison?
 
Look again, if it's not there, whoever gave you your copy has done you
and the FSF a disservice. You can also get the latest gcc stuff off of
terminator if it's really missing.
 
As an offhand comparison, ARC is about 20% faster with the 16 bit
library. Unfortunately, the stdio stuff seems really slow, dunno if
that's just my bad luck/bad configuring...
--
 -=- PrayerMail: Send 100Mbits to holyghost@father.son[127.0.0.1]
 and You Too can have a Personal Electronic Relationship with God!
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 2 Nov 89 18:51:19 GMT
From: att!cbnewsc!kimes@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Kit Kimes)
Subject: official tos 1.4 release
 
From article <5115@orca.WV.TEK.COM>, by stank@anvil.WV.TEK.COM (Stan
 Kalinowski):
| In article <1989Oct22.195156.14155@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> nemeth@gpu.utcs.UUCP
 (Gabe Nemeth) writes:
|>What I find annoying is that ROMs that fix bugs in the operating system
|>that was promised years ago is costing me $100.  Surely Atari could
|>afford to foster some loyalty by offering a "nominal" trade in price
|>for ROMs.
|
| C'mon folks, give Atari a break.  They're trying to provide support
| for their product and all they get are complaints.  Trade-in's on ROMs
| don't make sense, they don't have any intrinsic value so what's the
| point of trading them in?  It's not like a used car where the
| manufacturer could resell it.  Mask programmed ROMs cannot be reused,
| so they have no value.  Why should Atari take them on trade in?
 
Sure they have value.  They can put them in the 520STFM's they are going
to dump on the market next year for approx. $300.  Does anyone seriously think
they will have TOS1.4?
 
Kit Kimes
AT&T Bell Labs
Naperville, IL
...!att!ihlpe!kimes
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 3 Nov 89 01:32:30 GMT
From: grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@sun.com  (Steven Grimm)
Subject: TT's VME-slots
 
In article <4699f8e3.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
>Because internal IBM modem cards are cheaper then external modems. Just
>price them yourself. So, an internal modem for the TT should be cheaper
>then an external modem. As far as resale value goes, a used modem is only
>worth 50% of retail at best. And even less as faster modems are introduced.
 
An IBM-PC card bus is not a VME bus.  VME cards are much more expensive to
make.  An internal VME modem card would end up costing over a thousand
dollars, I'd guess.
 
And as someone else touched on, you won't have to wait for TT-specific
VME cards.  VME is a standard that's been around for years, and you can
already buy lots of VME products, from D/A converters to memory to high-
speed I/O controllers to video cards to multiple serial-port boards to...
But they don't come cheap, unfortunately.
 
---
"                                                  !" - Marcel Marceau
Steven Grimm            Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st
sgrimm@sun.com          ...!sun!sgrimm
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 3 Nov 89 01:57:28 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!samsung!aplcen!haven!uvaarpa!hudson!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl
8f@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: TT's VME-slots
 
In article <4699f8e3.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
 
>> >Internal high speed modem?? Nope.
>>
>> Why internal? Get it on RS232 and then it doesn't have to be VME or TT
>> specific.
>
>Because internal IBM modem cards are cheaper then external modems. Just
>price them yourself.
 
I have. The trade-off is that you pay more for the computer in the first
place (slots cost money) to maybe save money down the road. By the way,
VME slots are a lot more expensive to build than a PC-BUS slot, so I'd be
amazed if anyone ever made an internal VME modem card. Why don't you find
one and tell us how much it costs?
 
A VME slot isn't like a PC-BUS slot. It's faster and more expensive. You
put quite different things in them.
 
> Furthermore, wouldn't it be nice for Atari to sell a truly open
> system and let the Marketplace decide what to add to it.
 
They've announced one. Why don't you sit back and see if it materializes?
They also have a corporate philosophy that the average user doesn't
need a truly open system. If you don't like that philosophy, go found
a competing company and quit bitching here.
 
By the way, I'm typing this on a Sun 3/80. It has room for SIMM memory,
a SCSI port, and serial ports. It's a little less expandable than the
TT/P....
 
> But the TT Plastic
>is just another closed, limited support, game machine to me.
 
Much like the Sun 3/80, eh? Wow, great games.
 
>P.S. Do you know why Atari Corp doesn't just quit pretending to be
>a SERIOUS computer vendor and go back to making Game Machines??
 
Because Atari makes a lot more money selling computers than it does
selling game machines. Read their annual report. With a few facts
to back up your postings, they might become educational.
 
 
 
------
Greg Lindahl
gl8f@virginia.edu                                             I'm not the NRA.
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #599
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