INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Sun, 19 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 677
 
Today's Topics:
                 Atari ST Multitasking/Multiuser OSs
                  Comments on STE -- (un)known facts
                        Hard Drive Woes: HELP!
                               Turbo C
            Want a fast Atari ST...how about a '030 chip?
                               Word-Up
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 17:37:30 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!hybrid!spocom!gng@tut.cis
 .ohio-state.edu
Subject: Atari ST Multitasking/Multiuser OSs
 
In article <370003@col.hp.com> don@col.hp.com (Don Allison) writes:
 
>Here's the gist of the reply I tried to mail to George (which died on our
>mail server--couldn't figure out how to get to him):
 
Hmm...must be because I'm a newly-established uucp-only leaf node running
under MT C-Shell with it's own uucp? :-)  No internet-style addresses yet :-(
 
>(By the way I'm glad to hear that SOMEONE has had a good experience with
>MT C-shell and Beckemeyer...it's almost encouraged me to dig it out and
>try it again, given the amount of money I've invested in it)
 
I'm also surprised to finally see someone on Usenet who uses MT C-Shell
(well, at least previously :-).  David Beckemeyer is here on Usenet also
so you should be able to contact him with any problems (david@bdt.UUCP).
I'd be willing to give you some help if you like in hopefully getting
your system set up again with mtcsh.  (let's do email shall we?)
 
>I purchased everything that Beckemeyer put out for a while (C-shell, MT Csh,
>Micro C tools, RTX, ansiterm, vsh, etc, etc.) and upgraded every time I got
>a notice of a new version.  I spent a lot of money on their products, in
>general, and my overall impression in the end was unfavorable to the point
>that I no longer have MT C-shell vsh, ansiterm, etc on my hard disk (I do
>use some of the utilities from the c toolkit (whatever it was called) with
>Gulam).
 
I too purchased just about everything from Beckemeyer (about $300-400 Cdn!)
including HD Sentry (I'm planning to also get HD Toolkit from them -
comments on this?).  At first, I had problems with installing stuff like
uucp and also some of the documentation is skimpy at times.  But luckily
enough, I referred myself to the standard unix doc's from third-party
sources...and it's still on my hd ;-) (but I have only about 5megs left on my
16meg mtcsh partition!)
 
>...(stuff about skimpy docs deleted)...
>starting multiuser mode, my modem went into permanent off-hook...turns out
>I wanted to run single user multitasking but they were expecting a login
>from the rs-232 port and were running a getty, which was in an infinite
>loop echoing to the modem which was echoing to the getty, which was...this was
>not documented anywhere, I got lucky and finally figured out how to
>permanently kill the getty), 2) non-UNIXlike operation (in trying to fix
>the previous problem, I did an init 1, wanting to go to single user
>multitasking...unfortunately that was single user single tasking, and
>things like piping to lp no longer worked!  :-(  I was not pleased.),
 
Hmm...I'm using mtcsh 1.2 and I don't find that 'getty-echoing' (?) problem
you mentioned...yes, the problem of not being about to spool to the printer
when running init1 is sort of dumb...but oh well...I use init2 most of the
time anyhow.
 
>3) generally slow, sluggish feel, 4) a lot of utilities I had come to know and
>expect in a unix-like environment missing (this was really frustrating,
>...
 
Ahh, but after using Minix for a bit, I immediately went back to mtcsh!
If you think mtcsh is slow (which I believe it really isn't that slow at
all) , Minix is even worse (and I couldn't even install
it onto my hd - trashed a 16meg partition in the process - luckily it was
empty but I couldn't use it after...but that's another story :-).
Well, I had to do a bit of software-searching on bdt's bbs, other bbs's, and
more recently, Usenet and it's archive-servers (atari st, unix, etc) in order
to supplement the not-too-many utilities included in mtcsh.
 
>...and worst of all, 5) the system kept
>crashing when I tried to do almost ANYTHING (ESPECIALLY vsh! This was
 
Well, for me not really almost ANYTHING but some things!  After all, we're
working with a 68000 with has no memory protection and some of the regular
tos/gem prgs out there aren't really well...programmed well.  The only
problem I came across in vsh was when I tried to save the parameters of how
the windows were positioned/located - it would crash if I tried to boot it
up after that.  I mentioned it to David and he promptly fixed in a matter of
weeks...
 
>My experience (and what I have heard from friends) indicates that if you
>want a cheap unix-like environment, buy a PC and MKS-Toolkit...this is
>single tasking but does support pipes, etc, and feels WONDERFULLY like
>unix!  It has vi, awk, grep, etc, etc--all the things you know and love.
 
I heard some pretty good things about that also - their ads in Byte also prove
mks-toolkit to be very complete and well-thought out...alas, that's in the
pc world...we'll have to do with what we have on the ST...
 
>If you really want multitasking, consider using MINIX (I have friends
>who are having fun playing with it, personally I have never used it on
 
Fun?  Playing with 'that'? :-)  No way...as I said before, it's slow and
there are installation problems on hd's.  It might be
ok for the serious unix hobbyist but not for the guy who wants to use most of
his tos/gem stuff (given that it won't crash under mtcsh) and multitask
without the hassle of recompiling half of the kernel in order to make things
work to some extent....
 
>an ST so I can't speak from experience here) along with the Free Software
>Foundation tools--c compiler, flex, bison, emacs, etc.
 
Turns out that flex, bison, and emacs is available for the ST, and it runs
under mtcsh 'cause I have 'em!  I hear the gnu c compiler doesn't work because
of gnu-c not recognizing environment variables declared through mtcsh, but I
use Mark Williams C (3.0.5) and it works fine along with those other gnu
utilities.
 
>These are just my opinions and impressions, I'd be interested in hearing
>what others tell you about their experiences.
 
I haven't heard from other mtcsh users yet.  I've seen some on the bdt bbs
but with long-distance charges cropping up for me as they always are, I don't
usually call bdt bbs that much.  Those and other users should be able to
get on some sort of public access unix system and be able to view
comp.sys.atari.st and hopefully share their thoughts...
 
>(One other frustrating thing was that when they announced on-line manual
>pages, I immediately sent them an order, along with a check.  A few
>months later, they sent me a notice telling me that I could be a beta
>tester for the man pages, and if I would agree to use them a predefined
>amount in the next month I could keep them free--this after they had
>my check!)
 
That's strange...I ordered the online manual along with rtx, vsh, hd sentry,
sds, uucp, and the mtcsh 1.2 upgd with no problems whatsoever....hmmm...
 
>And on a different note, I was hoping for something like 24 bit color in the
 TT!
>Does anyone know how many planes the ATW has?  (I requested some information on
>the ATW at SIGGRAPH this year, but haven't heard anything yet).
 
Speaking of graphics, does anyone have more information/address of JRI's 4096
chip thingamajig?  Just like how spectrum/quantumpaint is able to pull off
512-3375 (or even 4096?) colours from the regular ST setup, wouldn't it then
be possible to display 4096-27000 colours? (ratio!)  Just a thought...
Also, I would like to get the addresses/info. on the companies that produce
add-on graphic boards for the ST - I've heard of one called Image Systems or
something, and one company also in Europe...
 
>Don Allison
>don@hp-col.col.hp.com
>
>As usual, these opinions are strictly my own, and even I disavow them on
>alternate days!
 
--
George Ng (Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto) | "Sure, I would like Canadian
UUCP:  uunet!mnetor!?becker,hybrid?!spocom!gng |  winters too...if it weren't
 or    utgpu!ncrcan!ziebmef!spocom!gng         |  for the weather."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 22:19:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: Comments on STE -- (un)known facts
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / daniel@pkmab.se (Daniel Deimert) / 11:13 am  Nov 18,
 1989 */
>What it has
>
>       - Smooth one-pixel scrolling in hardware
>       - Two 8-bit D/A-converters for stereo sound
>       - RCA stereo output
>       - Blitter (thanks guys!)
>       - Six (6) joystick ports [Atari BUSINESS Computer, ha!]
>       - A palette of 4096 colors. almost useless with the RF-modulator
 
How much memory? What kind of a monitor? What resolution?
And what is the price? Just curious.
 
Thanasis
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 21:54:02 GMT
From: agate!shelby!portia!zimm@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dylan Yolles)
Subject: Hard Drive Woes: HELP!
 
If you know anything about hard drives, I'm in desperate need of your help!
 
One of my hard drive partitions is turning into spaghetti. By that I mean
that when I attempt to write a lot of stuff to it (maybe 2 megs) the new
files are severely corrupted, the directory looks funny, the computer
crashes, and so on. I believe that the drive can't write to certain
sectors (I recently noticed a <write fail> message from the ICD utilities).
What should I do?
 
a) Should I reformat the partition and hope there are no real hardware
problems with the drive itself? As far as I can tell, the ICD utilities
won't allow one to reformat a single partition: how does one accomplish
this? (I DON'T WANT TO REFORMAT THE WHOLE DRIVE!!)
 
b) Is there any way of determining which sectors are permanently corrupted,
so that when I reformat the partition I can tell the drive to ignore them?
 
I need to solve this problem a.s.a.p., as one might imagine.
 
Thanks -
 
Dylan
zimm%portia@forsythe.stanford.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 00:36:22 GMT
From: mcsun!sunic!Urd!newsuser@uunet.uu.net  (Ralph Haglund)
Subject: Turbo C
 
Hi,
I got a problem.
I am using Turbo C 1.1 and it works fine. BUT the assembler and debugger I
haven't got working properly! I have tried two different copies of the
original disks. The assembler loads, probably loads the program then dies.
The debugger works OK, but when I want to leave it, it hangs with a busy bee.
I have tested the Swedish TOS 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4, both Aug.'88 version and the
final one (that for some reason has some missing scan codes, for shift arrows
and some more shifted ones). Probably tried half a dozen Ataris of different
sizes. Supposedly it works with the German TOS, so they must do something
irregular.
Yeah, another thing. In the TurboC proper, I wonder what kind of writing the
editor does in the windows. Often when I am browsing around, it seems to come
one pixel row wrong, so it leaves black pixels around. How come?
For the rest I am very satisfied with the compiler!
 
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Want to talk to me? Try:                                   |
|  QRALPH@SELDC51  ||  QRALPH@SELDC52  ||  qralph@dna.lth.se  |
|  My name? In official Sweden it is: 4.901.185.654 (secret)  |
|  Anywhere else: Ralph Haglund                               |
|  Disclaimer: If it works, it's out of date.                 |
|_____________________________________________________________|
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 20:00:42 GMT
From: matthews@umd5.umd.edu  (Mike Matthews)
Subject: Want a fast Atari ST...how about a '030 chip?
 
In article <862@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave 'Post No Nicknames'
 Newton) writes:
>
>   Don't be yellin' at me, _I_ didn't post that it made it run at IIci speeds,
>in fact, I think that I said it wouldn't run at IIci speed. No way no how.
>And if you're yelling at me for saying it wouldn't run at IIci speed, that's
>pretty silly too, 'cuz as bad as Apple's software is, a 25MHz doin' bad will
>still beat a 16MHz doin' good.
>
>
>--
>David L. Newton       | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton  | The Raging Apostle--
 
You completely missed my point.  I made no mention at all to the '030 for ST
that supposedly runs at IIci speeds.  I was referring to the comment about the
TT's 030 running at 16Mhz.  Your last sentence is not always true, either.
Look at the current STs, for example.  Take the JATO 16Mhz board.  Gee wiz, it
runs at 16Mhz, so it should be twice as fast as an 8Mhz ST, right?
 
Wrong.  Other aspects of the hardware limit the speed increase.  Drastically.
 
A 25MHz "doin' bad" can be worse than an 8Mhz doing average.
 
Mike
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 19 Nov 89 20:20:08 GMT
From: abc@purdue.edu  (Rick Hunter)
Subject: Word-Up
 
In article <4529@blake.acs.washington.edu>, themod@blake.acs.washington.edu
 (Chris Hinton) writes:
>
>   I just purchased my copy of Word-Up on Friday and I am already having a
> problem, can you beleive that?  Anyway, I set it up according to the manual
> entry to work with a 1040ST with a double sided drive and a Gemini 15X
> printer.  Everything is okay, I load it up, go through the install program
> without a hitch.  Then I load it up, make a little document and try to
> print it out and it just send garbage to the printer.  Why?  Any help
> would be appreciated.
>
>    Chris Hinton
 
Funny you should mention this. When I first got a copy of this program
I had the same problem. Except, I was using a Gemini10X. I could not get
the thing to work with the printer unless I did some fancy formating
with page length and width. Even then it was not guaranteed to work.
 
What did I end up doing? My brother coughed for a new printer that
is known to work with it. I could not determine exactly if the problem
was in the software or my outdated printer. For all the trouble you are
going through I would suggest buying a new printer. Oddly, I could
get it to work with the Star NX-1000 at the store where I bought the
program. Hope this helps. Has anyone else had this problem with the
older Gemini printers?????
 
Alan Chan
abc@arthur.cs.purdue.edu
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #677
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