INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Mon, 13 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 645
 
Today's Topics:
                        Languages!!!! (cont.)
                            MAC emulators
                 MWC errors (was Re: GEM help needed)
                         Self-Modifying Code
                 TOS 1.4 Incompatibility List Request
                  What does the TT Buy me?? (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:29:34 MST
From: ehsnsr@jupiter.nmt.edu (Eric Hobbs)
Subject: Languages!!!! (cont.)
 
Hello Again.
 
     I have received a few replies that mention that some versions of GFA BASIC
are in the public domain. Is this true? If so, where can I get it without
having to spend money for it. It must be legal, of course. What can I say? I'm
a cheap S.O.B. who doesn't really want to spend $15 for a back issue of
STart. :-)    :-P'''
 
Thanks again.
 
Eric Hobbs
ehsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 16:11:22 GMT
From: mitel!laika!colbeck@uunet.uu.net  ( design)
Subject: MAC emulators
 
I'm new to this newsgroup so I'm probably asking a question that's been
asked before...
 
Just wondering what is the latest in MAC emulators available for the ST1040?
I was looking around about a year ago and at that time I believe that
Magic-Sac was the only thing around. Does anyone know what the latest revision
of this product is or whether there is anything better around?
 
Thanks in advance....
 
Roger
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 22:37:11 GMT
From: ecsvax.uncecs.edu!dukeac!sbigham@mcnc.org  (Scott Bigham)
Subject: MWC errors (was Re: GEM help needed)
 
In article <46c13647.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert)
 writes:
>Has anyone else found any errors in the MWC Version 3.0 manual??
 
As a matter of fact, yes.  The 3.0.5 manual claims that the proper way to call
objc_edit() is as follows:
 
int objc_edit(tree,object,character,oldindex,kind,newindex);
OBJECT *tree;int object,character,oldindex,kind,*newindex;
 
This is in fact what GEM expects.  It is not, however, what the 3.0.5 library
expects.  The actual call format is:
 
int objc_edit(tree,object,character,index,kind,index);
OBJECT *tree;int object,character,*index,kind;
 
where index serves the function of both oldindex and newindex above.
 
By the way, what is the most recent version of MWC?  I've heard 3.0.9 and I'm
somewhat concerned that Mark Williams hasn't notified me.  To my knowledge I'm
registered (how might one check that?).
 
                                                sbigham
--
Scott Bigham                         "The opinions expressed above are
Internet sbigham@dukeac.ac.duke.edu   (c) 1989 Hacker Ltd. and cannot be
USENET   sbigham@dukeac.UUCP          copied or distributed without a
...!mcnc!ecsgate!dukeac!sbigham       Darn Good Reason."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 19:30:58 GMT
From:
 gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!shadooby!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!w
atmath!ria!uwovax!7103_2622@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Eric Smith)
Subject: Self-Modifying Code
 
In article <89316.201227SML108@PSUVM.BITNET>, SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes:
> Hi, I am writing an assembly language routine which modifies its own code in
> a tight loop in order to avoid having to do a decision statement at every
> iteration.  Unfortunately, whatever code I am inserting is screwing things up
> royally, and although I have checked it fairly throughly, I cannot figure out
> what is going on.  Question:  Is there something screwy about executable and
> object files that would disallow self modifying.  The block that gets modified
>
> is this:
>
>          lsr.w   d3
>          bne     cont
>          add.l   #8,a0
>          move.w  #$8000,d3
>   cont:  nop
It would have helped if you had included the code that was doing the
modifications. The 68000 does instruction prefetch. If you're modifying
code that's really close to the instruction that does the modification,
then you can lose (the chip is executing the instruction it prefetched,
rather than the updated instruction in memory). You can get around this
by sticking some nops in. A better solution is to eliminate the self
modification entirely. I *strongly* suggest the latter, because your code will
almost certainly break on the TT (which has a 256 byte instruction cache).
--
Eric R. Smith                     email:
Dept. of Mathematics            ERSMITH@uwovax.uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario   ERSMITH@uwovax.bitnet
London, Ont. Canada N6A 5B7
ph: (519) 661-3638
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 14 Nov 89 01:08:37 GMT
From: oahu!stephen@cs.ucla.edu  (Steve Whitney)
Subject: TOS 1.4 Incompatibility List Request
 
In article <19506@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (John
 Morton) writes:
>I have been trying to keep my list up to date, but I have found that
>most entries have been contested by subsequent postings.  The following
>is where it stands now, with all entries removed which were cited as
>running flawlessly by someone.
>
[list deleted]
 
>Timeworks DTP
 
This works great on my Rainbow TOSsed 520.
 
[rest of list trashed]
 
 
>"Down                             John Morton                  M.E. Machine Shop
> Down in the basement     jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu   Etcheverry Hall
> We hear the sound of machines..."                     Univ. of Calif.
 
 
Steve Whitney   "It's never _really_ the last minute"       (())_-_(())
UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student                                | (* *) |
Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu              UCLA Bruin-->    ?  \_@_/  ?
GEnie:    S.WHITNEY                                           `-----'
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 14 Nov 89 03:54:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) /  3:56 pm
 Nov 13, 1989 */
> In article <2245@hudson.acc.virginia.edu>, gl8f@astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU
 (Greg Lindahl) writes:
> > Monitors that show resolutions greater than 640x480 in color are very
> > expensive.  Not very suitable for a small-business machine. You can
> > always buy some PC Klone with one if you want it.
>
> Color monitors capable of 800x600 are under $700. ...
> The TT was an opportunity for Atari to LEAP ahead of the
> competition in graphics instead falling behind.
 
I would hate to reduce your enthousiasm (:-) for Atari Richard
but that would have to be quite a LEAP.
The current most common VGA for 386 PCs is 800x600x16colors.
It won't be more that 5-6 months before 1024x768 color will be THE standard
for 386 systems.
By the time the TT appears...
 
> > Price high resolution monitors for the Mac. Note that they require a card.
> > Note that the TT/P has a card slot.
>
> Yes, EXACTLY ONE, and that is only a half-VME card slot at that!!
 
I have seen the NEC Multisync 3D for less than $550.
Its provides 1024x768 interlaced or 800x600 non-interlaced. Color of course.
For the PC a controler (1024x768x16colors) costs less that $220.
 
Thanasis
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard?
 Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!"      R. A. Heinlein
 
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu          (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP    : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 14 Nov 89 04:33:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu  (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) / 10:04 pm  Nov
 13, 1989 */
>Given that perspective, TOS isn't so bad - the PC world has yet to switch
>to OS/2, so they're still looking at single-user single-tasking 24x80
>character cell COMMAND.COM prompts. Obviously this market is shaking itself
>out pretty quickly though, and Atari may yet miss the boat...
 
I Assume you haven't heard of Microsoft windows or Desqview for the PCs.
It takes less that $1000 of hardware to multitask DOS using a graphical
environment and virtual memory (of sorts).
 
Thanasis
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard?
 Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!"      R. A. Heinlein
 
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu          (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP    : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #645
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Via:      UK.AC.EARN-RELAY; 14 NOV 89  8:20:16 GMT  
Received: from UKACRL by UK.AC.RL.IB (Mailer X1.25) with BSMTP id 0385; Tue, 14
          Nov 89 08:15:57 GM
Received: by UKACRL (Mailer X1.25) id 5140; Tue, 14 Nov 89 08:15:46 GMT
Date:     Mon, 13 Nov 89 12:47:22 MST
Reply-To: INFO-ATARI16@MIL.ARMY.WSMR-SIMTEL20
Sender:   INFO-ATARI16 Discussion <INFO-A16@EARN.DEARN>
Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was INFO-A16@MARIST
From:     INFO-ATARI16-REQUEST@MIL.ARMY.WSMR-SIMTEL20
Subject:  INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 #640
Comments: To: INFO-ATARI16@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Mon, 13 Nov 89       Volume 89 : Issue 640
 
Today's Topics:
                        Absoft Fortran address
                     atari ABC  yea or nay  ????
          Atari Support -- a different perspective (2 msgs)
               Does a GNU C++ port for Atari ST exist?
                          RE: Vapourware!!!
                             TEX files!?
                             Trip-a-Tron
                                  TT
                        Vapourware!!! (3 msgs)
                      What's wrong with the AMY?
                      What does the TT Buy me??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 11:01:55 GMT
From: eru!luth!sunic!mcsun!hp4nl!nikhefh!t19@bloom-beacon.mit.edu  (Geert J v
 Oldenborgh)
Subject: Absoft Fortran address
 
Does anyone have the current address of Absoft Fortran?
(The mail bounced on 4268 Woodward, Royal Oak, MI).
Thanx a 1.E6,
                Geert Jan van Oldenborgh
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 05:34:44 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: atari ABC  yea or nay  ????
 
"Big Bad Dom" asks:
>I am seriously thinking of buying a PC at the moment and I have basically
>decided on one of two models,
 
>               1)ATARI ABC
 
>               2)AMSTRAD 2086
 
>Does anyone have/know of the machine and if so could someone please
>offer me advice on buying it?
 
More important than the technical differences between the two machines is
the difference between the companies which make the computers.
 
Amstrad is a professional company which produces computers.  They have
established a world-wide reputation for delivering good, solid computers.
 
Atari Corp is a toy company which has established a reputation for being
poorly managed, and for its capricious treatment of its users, dealers
and suppliers.  While the "Atari ABC" may be the computer of the week now,
you may find yourself holding an obsolete system when they go off after the
next glittering gizmo and leave you with an unsupported orphan next week.
 
Then again, maybe they won't...  it's your gamble...
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 07:42:22 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari Support -- a different perspective
 
>-- John Townsend                                       ames!atari!towns
>   Atari Corporation, Title Unknown!
 
 
"Title Unknown"...   that's pretty sad...  Atari Corp has such a team of
*excellent* people and still doesn't know how to get the most out of them...
 
I hope that John, and Allan and Ken, and all the other excellent individuals
at Atari Corp.  understand that my criticisms of Atari are directed at the
"top" management, and not at them...
 
If only Atari would let these individuals apply their ideas to how their
departments should be run, maybe we'd see a VERY different Atari Corp..!
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 07:29:01 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari Support -- a different perspective
 
Chip Robertson observes:
>... Atari's delivery record has left me feeling lacking, but I would like
>to accentuate a positive point.  If it had not been for this network
>in general and Atari employees like Allan Pratt, Ken Badertscher,
>et al. clearing up rumors and providing solutions, my view of Atari
>and the ST would be quiet different.
 
What Chip and most others don't realize is that Allan's, Ken's and all the
other Atari "representative's" presence here (and elsewhere) is *NOT*
"official" Atari policy...  anything these dedicated Atari people may say
is *NOT* "official" as far as Atari Corp is concerned.
 
Neil Harris tried to parlay his "official" presence for favors from the
various online services, and with the exception of the one run by his
personal friend, failed at the attempt. For some reason, most of these
online services refused to be "bought" by having an "official" person
from Atari involved.  Only the one his "buddy" ran bought into his
peculiar brand of "public relations".  On that service, his word
was gospel law.. and anyone who didn't fall into line was *out*
 
Those who have been so helpful here on UseNet have been so on their
own time..  and at their own peril..  information from Allen, Ken and
the others from Atari has helped to fill the "official" vaccuum from
Atari...  and yes.. they do deserve the utmost thanks from ALL Atari
users...!
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon Nov 13 15:15:00 MET 1989
From: VCD51661%DS0RUS54.bitnet@jade.berkeley.edu
Subject: Does a GNU C++ port for Atari ST exist?
 
Hi there,
 
If i remember correctly somebody on the net spoke of a GNU C++
compiler some months ago.
 
1.)  Does such a thing exist?
2.)  Is the source code available (as usual for GNU software)?
3.)  Does a port for the Atari ST exist?
4.)  Are commercial C++ compilers for the ST available?
 
Any hints?
                        /*
                        **  Benno Salzgeber
                        **  Institute for Computer Applications
                        **  University of Stuttgart
                        **  Pfaffenwaldring 57
                        **  D-7000 Stuttgart 80 (FRG)
                        **  VCD51661@DS0RUS54.BITNET
                        */
 
-- FOOD FOR THE LITTLE LINE EATER -- FOOD FOR THE LITTLE LINE EATER --
-- FOOD FOR THE LITTLE LINE EATER -- FOOD FOR THE LITTLE LINE EATER --
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 06:58:55 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: RE: Vapourware!!!
 
Anthony Lapadula states:
 
>(1)  I do resent being told in late '85 that my 1040ST would indeed
>be able to use the Blitter, which, of course, was due out RSN.  Don't
>know if I should blame my dealer or Atari, but the example stands.
 
Your dealer has nothing to do with the lies Atari tell you.. if they
don't ship him the products they have promised you, he can't sell them
to you...
 
Sam Tramiel, President of Atari Corp promised, on a TV show called something
like "the Computer Show" that all STs would have a blitter upgrade made
available...    something like a year later, Atari finally admitted the lie,
and made the excuse that the FCC wouldn't let them do it...
 
You've simply been the victim of believing the Atari lie... how many times
will they sucker you in..?
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 09:47:22 GMT
From: psuvm!jjl101@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu  (J.J. Lehett)
Subject: TEX files!?
 
    I am running a 1 meg 520 ST with 2 single sided drives....
I have a number of TEX files which I wish to view, and the are
labeled as xxxx.TEX.  Can someone explain the necessary programs and
all that will allow me to do this?  I simply want to read these files!
Anyweays, I have messed with some DVI progs and all...but need
more explicit info I guess, as I have had no success!
 
   Thanks in advance!
-------
********************************************************************
*       J.J.        *             JJL101@psuvm.bitnet              *
*                   *            Penn State University             *
*    John Lehett    *          Computational Mathematics           *
********************************************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Nov 89 20:39:09 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!buggs@uunet.uu.net  (William Edward JuneJr)
Subject: Trip-a-Tron
 
>-- John Townsend                                ames!atari!towns
>
>   Atari Corporation, Title Unknown!
 
Didn't you get a promotion? Thought I read something to that effect
 somewhere? OS8~)
            ~
            WHAT ARE all these wierd codes? I'm usin' FLASH in ANSI.
 
Ed<Neophyte>June
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 06:33:37 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: TT
 
Jouni Alkio observes:
 
>I don't really understand why you (and many others) complain about the
>TT/P.
 
Well, what *I* don't really understand is why ANYONE gets very hot about
ANY of these supposed Atari "products"...
 
The ONLY thing the Atari Corp manufacturers and sells is the ST/Mega.
 
(Sorry about non-US markets, I guess there are mutant variations there)
 
Why worry about how many VME slots there may be, someday, in some theoretcal
product..?  You can't buy one now, so why care about it..?
 
Why worry about the theoretical resolution of some still vaporware Atari
workstation..?  The only thing you can *BUY* is 640x400 monochrome.
 
Atari has been *TALKING* for years about these other things...  but still
selling the same old, same old...
 
Go down to your local (hah!) Atari dealer and check out the Atari TT/ATW/STE
and *then* worry about it...
 
BobR
 
(COMDEX is tomorrow...  anyone remember COMDEX last year..?)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 07:05:21 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Vapourware!!!
 
R'ykandar Korra'ti says:
 
> I've seen the NeXT machine.  It is very slow.
 
The NeXT may be slow by your standards, but if your applications depended
on running on an Atari TT/ATW/STE  they'd be even slower... those machines
don't even exist as commercial products yet.
 
You can either run your applications on a NeXT *now* or wait and wait and
wait for an Atari product to eventually show up.
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 06:48:57 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Vapourware!!!
 
Golly... I just played with a NExT computer at a local "computer swap meet"..
 
BusinessLand was exhibiting them to a large crowd... guess what the Atari
Corp representation was..??
 
One local Atari users' group had a booth, and one local dealer had an ST
for sale, not running, not on display.. (the Amigas took all the room)
 
Hard to make a comparison between the NExt, which is available NOW, on sale
at locations across the USA, and the various Atari vapor systems which are
still only seen at closed trade shows.
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Nov 89 13:21:39 GMT
From:
 snorkelwacker!spdcc!merk!alliant!linus!nixbur!nixpbe!mboen@tut.cis.ohio-state.e
du  (Martin Boening)
Subject: Vapourware!!!
 
A couple of weeks ago, c't computers tested teh NeXT. They worked with a
NeXT machine of some company in Kiel, I believe. This NeXT was, at that
time, THE ONLY NeXT COMPUTER available in Germany. Just one machine, right.
So, should we all call the NeXT vapourware, over here?
 
Martin
 
--
Email: in the   USA ->  ...!uunet!philabs!linus!nixbur!mboening.pad
       outside  USA ->  ?...!mcvax?!unido!nixpbe!mboening.pad
Paper Mail: Martin Boening, Nixdorf Computer AG, DS-CC22,
            Pontanusstr. 55, 4790 Paderborn, W.-Germany
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 06:22:54 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: What's wrong with the AMY?
 
Andy Cassino mentions:
 
>ST magazines? Well, maybe Wall Street is the center of the financial world,
>but I can walk into any B. Dalton in a suburban shopping mall and buy
>more ST mags than I want or need.
 
Maybe you're easily satisfied with the three or four Atari magazines that
are left in the market...   unfortunately, you've got to cross ANALOG and
ST-LOG off your list, since Atari Corp's capricious treatment of the US
marketplace has forced ANALOG out of business after many years of trying to
support Atari.
 
This leaves...?
 
STart  (disk? nondisk? potluck, depending on the B.Dalton)
ST Informer (not bad, but never seen one in B.Dalton)
ST World (Bleeech.. besides, no B.Dalton would carry it)
Atari Interface Magazine (virtually unknown outside of Atari user groups)
 
Umm...  I'm running out of options here... can you help me with some more
of all those ST mags you want or need..?
 
The point is, magazine publishing is NOT an altruistic profession.. Atari
Corp is playing with people's lives and livelihoods with their game playing.
Who can afford to support a company like Atari when it becomes a decision
between blindly supporting Atari, or eating..?
 
Like it or not, that's what it's finally come down to in the Atari world.
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Nov 89 08:07:42 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: What does the TT Buy me??
 
Richard Covert/Greg Lindhal debate:
 
>>In article <46bcb82f.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Cover
 
>Gee, Richard, I thought people had been explaining to you in detail
>exactly what the TT gives you.
 
The Atari TT gives you an Atari Cheerleader like Greg Lindhal..
 
 
There aren't any Atari products to compete with most of what the other
computer companies already have for sale, so you have to fall back on the
"someday, someday" cheerleaders...
 
>And to repeat: WHY DON'T YOU JUST SHUT UP AND LET THE MARKET DECIDE IF THE
>TT IS A GOOD MACHINE INSTEAD OF FLOODING COMP.SYS.ATARI.ST WITH MESSAGES
>ABOUT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER SEEN?
 
>>What has happened to Atari Corp??
 
>They are making money selling computers.
 
 
Atari Corp is making a lot of noise about IBM compatible "pocketable"
computers, and "handheld" video games. They are *NOT* doing anything
useful for their base of computer owners.  Of course they can make money
anywhere they want to.. that's their right under our free enterprise system..
but.. do we as owners of their outdated technology have to kiss up to them??
 
Neil Harris of Atari Corp used to try to tell Atari owners to just
"shut up" if they didn't like what Atari was doing.. his reign as deity
of Atari information didn't last long. How long will Atari owners watch\
as they're once more passed by...?
 
BobR
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #640
*****************************************
=========================================================================