=========================================================================
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Tue, 24 Apr 90       Volume 90 : Issue  472
 
Today's Topics:
             CALL FOR DISCUSSION: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
                  Documented Index for terminator...
           Looking for a Graphics Standard beyond ANSI VDI
                    Midwest Atari swapfest report
          My opinion of the comp.sys.atari.st.tech proposal
                      One world, One CPU, One OS
                SCSI Host adapter comparison question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 09:01:07 GMT
From: rochester!rit!cci632!ccicpg!nf@rutgers.edu  (Ned Foboe)
Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Message-ID: <68005@ccicpg.UUCP>
 
PLEASE PUT ME ON THE LIST.
 
--
Ned. Loves Ataris.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 12:59:00 GMT
From:
 sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.c
 so.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs325ec@ucsd.edu
Subject: Documented Index for terminator...
Message-ID: <16000059@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
 
        Two things:
 
                a) I put a file at terminator called xxxxs.lzh which will
                        go through a file (in my case a PageStream doc) and
                        replace sequences of X's with an incremental counter.
                        i.e. xxxx filename.ext -start -count -#ofXs -duplicates
                        (new files are created if not enough XXXXs are enc-
                        ountered (unless none are))
 
                b) If you have used a program from terminator, please mail
                        me the following info: title, author, usage,
                        limitations, bugs etc... I will compile the list
                        and put it there as DocumentedIndex.
 
        -- Greg
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 09:50:39 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!gmdzi!pflueger@uunet.uu.net  (Clemens Pflueger)
Subject: Looking for a Graphics Standard beyond ANSI VDI
Message-ID: <2400@gmdzi.UUCP>
 
tcamp@dukeac.UUCP (Ted A. Campbell) writes:
 
   > Looking for a Graphics Standard:
 
   > I have been developing for some time a project called "Space Flight
   > Simulator."  Up to this point I have been utilizing ANSI-standard
   > VDI graphics routines because (a) an implemenation of the ANSI VDI
   > standard exists on the Unix micro I have (AT&T Unix PC) and (b) I
   > thought that it might be possible to port the routines over to other
   > computers for which there are ANSI VDI implementations, [...]
 
There is an upcoming international standard,
        'Computer Graphics Interface' (CGI, ISO DIS 9636)
which provides all you need to do interactive computer graphics and
enables porting application programs between different machines and
operating systems.
 
   > The ANSI VDI standard does have some shortcomings, however.  At least
   > as implemented on my machines, (a) it does not allow me to write to
   > a buffer (from which I can blit portions of the buffer to the screen),
 
The CGI standard provides all the functions for bitmap graphics, e.g.
create bitmaps, display one bitmap while drawing on another, operations
between two or three bitmaps.
 
   > and (b) its mouse functions (vrq_locator() and vsm_locator()) do not
   > allow me to poll the mouse to see if a button has been pressed:
   > [...]
 
The input model of CGI knows of synchronous and asynchronous modes:
REQUEST, SAMPLE and EVENT mode (e.g.: Event means, actions are queued
and the application program could inspect the queue to detect mouse
button operations and mouse positions).
 
   > This leads me to question whether I should try to re-port the graphics
   > routines to another standard. [...]
 
Yes.
 
Up to now, I know of CGI implementations for
        DOS, using EGA graphics
        DOS, using separate card with high resolution
        UNIX using X11 graphics
        VMS  using DECwindows
They all use the C Language binding of CGI, but as this language
binding is not yet fixed in ISO, they use different function names
and parameter types.
 
As soon as the binding is Standard and the CGI implementors have
updated their functions you could port your applications with very
little effort to new environments (provided there is a CGI for
that environment).
 
Best regards
 
        Clemens Pflueger, GMD
--
  Clemens Pflueger, pflueger@gmdzi.gmd.de, (++49 2241) 14-2331
  Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung (GMD)
  German National Research Centre for Computer Science
  Schloss Birlinghoven, Postfach 1240, D-5205 Sankt Augustin 1, FRG
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 16:58:22 GMT
From: chinet!saj@gargoyle.uchicago.edu  (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: Midwest Atari swapfest report
Message-ID: <1990Apr23.165822.11005@chinet.chi.il.us>
 
Bob Brodie showed up at the Midwest swapfest on April 22.  The big news is
that the Megafile 44 is now in retail channels (one was given away as a
doorprize).  Both Portfolio and Lynx are doing well, but that's of limited
interest to ST-ers.  A trickle of STacy 4 machines are in US retail (music
dealers only).  It appears that TOS 1.4 is NEVER going to be shipped as
original equipment on any machine (neither surprising nor important).  The
terms of the upcoming 520 ST promotion were explained: they'll be STFMs,
and the promotion will be directed to department store sales.  Also, while
the pipeline is dry, mono monitors are available and should be getting out.
 
D. Brumleve (apologies for misspelling) was easily the darling of the event.
she had a special on her line of Kid programs, and was giving out jumping
disks.  Anyone with children should get her stuff.  Anyone with a printer
should probably get Kid Publisher, children or no.  She turns out to have
some interesting an thoroughly worked out ideas about educational
philosophy, which GREATLY affect the features of her programs.  I don't
agree all the way down the line, but she has 5 kids and I don't.
 
Everyone likes rumors, right?  The stuff I liked best was conversations
about what's going on at Mark Williams Company.  Putting together various
impressions from people who have different kinds of contact with them, it
really looks like they could be back developing stuff for the ST in
milliseconds if there was a decent chance of making money at it.  And the
bigshots at MW are said to get along well personally with papa Jack, which
isn't all that common.
When asked about rumors of an upcoming new GDOS, Brodie said "You hear a lot
of those rumors, don't you".  And when asked about a possible higher speed
ST, he said "I seem to have heard that question before".  So no confirmation
at all, but not enough denial to stop us speculating.
On the TT, the one thing he'll guarantee is that nobody at Atari can see any
reason the TTp won't be for sale before this year is out.  They may plan
sooner, but when he's the one disappointed Atarians will take their
disappointment out on, that's his date.  Supposedly, the next guy with a
chance to influence TT hardware design works for the FCC, not Atari.
 
I tried a program that uses the documented negative line A variable to
detect mouse button pushes and that uses line A to draw points on the STe
that was there: worked fine.  The TOS 1.6 line A incompatibilities must
be in other functions.
                                 Steve J.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 15:17:17 GMT
From:
 cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!rodan!rodan.acs.syr.e
 du!jfbruno@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (John F. Bruno)
Subject: My opinion of the comp.sys.atari.st.tech proposal
Message-ID: <3113@rodan.acs.syr.edu>
 
IMHO:
 
I think the amount of traffic in c.s.a.s. is not large enough for splitting
into any other groups at all.  Of course it seems nice to have a seperate
technical group, but anyone who has been using Usenet for a while knows that
a good percentage of the articles will probably be posted to all of the ST
groups, so we'll have twice the messages to wade through.  People that just
subscribe to one or the other group might be missing out on something. I also
think that everyone has an interest in some technical issues as well as more
general topics.  Most people would subscribe to all ST groups, so would be
reading cross-posted articles multiple times.
 
As the saying goes: "Don't fix something that works"
 
---jb
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 15:27:16 GMT
From:
 usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!littlei!anvil.intel.com!griff@ucsd
 .edu  (Richard Griffith)
Subject: One world, One CPU, One OS
Message-ID: <1016@gandalf.littlei.UUCP>
 
In article <1563@anvil.oz>, malcolml@anvil.oz (Malcolm Lithgow) writes:
 
< *Mac stuff deleted* >
 
>
> I've been reading this discussion with probably a slightly different
> view-point from most others involved.  I'm a Unix programmer (on PC boxes)
> so I am rapidly gaining quite an understanding of Unix, I've programmed
> Mac's, and I own (and *very* much enjoy) a machine called the Archimedes
> from Acorn in the UK.  My favourite is still the Archimedes, but I know
> quite a few people who still prefer Macs, Unix, etc. over it.
(I've read about that machine - supposed to be very nice...)
>
> It's very easy to become complacent when your operating system is very
> popular, because you assume that it has to be good, otherwise it wouldn't
> be popular.  This is totally incorrect.  Marketting pressures have far more
> impact (particularly international marketting) than technical brilliance.
* Hear Hear !! *
 
A few others have noted how fast IBM came on to the scene - Remember -
the IBM PC was originally designed to replace the IBM Selectric typewriter
and break into a market that Xerox had a strong showing in: Word Processing.
Add to this the fact that IBM could throw literally millions of dollars at
their PC without feeling the impact - they did.  The IBM PC was introduced with
the largest installed base of software of any completely new machine on the
market then and now. (Yes, I think they still hold that record!) Granted, noone
uses that software now - but it was something way back when... Clones
were introduced due to, (I think) IBM's arrogance.
You see, IBM musta figured "go ahead - let anyone TRY and build a machine
as good as WE can - nobody'll buy it" - they were wrong.
 
Now they have made a real blunder - they offered OS/2 - to replace an old,
patched, and ailing OS - let's hope that the likes of the Amiga, the MAC II's,
and the ST's can jump in there with real Power! :-)
 
:Richard E. Griffith, "griff" : iNTEL, Hillsboro Ore.
:griff@anvil.hf.intel.com
:SCA!: Cyrus Hammerhand, Household of the Golden Wolf, Dragons' Mist, An Tir
:These are MY opinions, if iNTEL wanted them, They'd pay for `em!
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Apr 90 15:06:34 GMT
From:
 mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!rodan!roda
 n.acs.syr.edu!jfbruno@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (John F. Bruno)
Subject: SCSI Host adapter comparison question
Message-ID: <3111@rodan.acs.syr.edu>
 
I have some ST-SCSI questions for all of you in netland.
 
1)  If you have any of these adapters, please explain how it is performing,
    how bulky it is, how good and trouble-free the driver is, and where you
    got it, if for a price lower than the price I have:
 
    Product                     U.S.$$   Mail order supplier     Phone #
    --------------------------  ------   ----------------------  -------------
    ASTRA SCSI HOST ADAPTER     $99.95   B&C Computer Visions    (408)749-1003
    BERKELEY SCSI HOST ADAPTER  134.95   (same place)            (same number)
    SUPRA SCSI HOST ADAPTER      99.95   (same place)            (same number)
    ICD SCSI HOST ADAPTER        94.00   1st STOP Comp Systems   (800)252-2787
 
    Any others not on this list??
 
2)  How difficult is it to format and use attached volumes?  Since there are
    so many different drives that can be attached, how do you tell the driver
    how many tracks, etc. etc. (or is it all automatically taken care of?)
    Compatibility with existing software is of course a major concers. I would
    like to use it with Spectre128 and maybe eventually with SuperCharger, so
    I will also need the beastie to have DMA out.
 
I intend to get one of the above to drive a SyQuest 44MB removable media drive.
I have a list of some of these SCSI SyQuest thingies and will post along with
my summary.  There is a newer SyQuest mechanism out there that can has a 20ms
average access time (the older mechanisms have a 25ms access time) The newer
mechanisms are also supposed to be much more reliable (I will post details
with my summary). By the way, the newer mechanisms have an orange LED instead
of the red LED on the old mech.
 
Thanks in advance to all that respond
---jb
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V90 Issue #472
*****************************************
