=========================================================================
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Fri, 22 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  852
 
Today's Topics:
              Automatic window activation - pros & cons?
                     GEnie uplink is shut down..
                    GnuEmacs 18.55 on the Atari ST
             Replacement for ALT-HELP for 24 pin printer
             USENET -> GEnie uplink now working (2 msgs)
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Date: 22 Dec 89 19:57:04 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!uhnix1!uhnix2!uace0@tut.cis.ohio-state.
 edu  (Michael B. Vederman)
Subject: Automatic window activation - pros & cons?
Message-ID: <937@uhnix2.uh.edu>
 
Graham Thomas writes about an auto window topper for the desktop...
 
Graham,
 
I wrote such a desk accessory over a year ago, and I found several problems
when using this at the desktop and in programs.
 
Of course I do know more about the machine now, but these are what I found back
then:
 
At the desktop:
 
The window would come to the top, but the OS wouldn't change the directory pat
so you had 'weirdness' do to that.
 
Any program previously selected in the active window became deselected when the
new window was automatically topped.  Therefore, you couldn't copy very
effectively, or do something like a 'show info' because the file would be
deselected before you got to where you were going...
 
I did sorta change it such that if you had the right mouse button down it
wouldn't auto-top, but whats the point?  That's more work...
 
In programs:
 
The window became topped, but unfortunately the bottom window was still the
active one (or so the program thought).
 
In a word proccessor, this is kinda funny, because your cursor and block
highlights are no where correct for the current window, but rather aligned
with the bottom window...
 
All in all, I thought it was a neat idea, but it turned out to be pretty
useless (at least back then).  Maybe if I get the chance, I'll look into it
again...
 
- mike
 
--
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Date: 22 Dec 89 22:05:25 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!nic.MR.NET!ns!logajan@tut.cis
 .ohio-state.edu  (John Logajan)
Subject: GEnie uplink is shut down..
Message-ID: <1989Dec22.220525.3316@ns.network.com>
 
In article <15158@well.UUCP> dsmall@well.UUCP (David Small) writes:
>I've gone ahead and shut it down. It won't be back
>up unless those concerns are resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
 
Everyone implies unanimity -- one disenting voice would therefore be
enough to kill it.
 
Why don't you rephrase it, "it won't be shut off unless EVERYONE wants
it shut off."
 
Your selection of one sentence over the other is arbitrary.
 
> Many did not want to see information going only one way.
 
Tough cookies.  You shouldn't let people brow beat you.  Doing the right
thing does not always win you popularity contests.  Sometimes you have
to be a moral/ethical leader rather than a follower.  This selfish group
of USENET whiners is in desperate need of a model to emulate.  You have
the credibility to be that model.
 
> Would GEnie put some sort of anthology copyright on the notes?
 
Come on, this is a joke, right?  I mean I expect a little legal ignorance
on the net, but this is hilarious.
 
>no for-profit on my part
 
Caving in to those socialists out there, ehy?  Are you going to give up
making a profit on other areas of your life to please them also?  And
why is "profit" always defined in green-backs?  Do not all the users of
USENET and GEnie profit?  If they didn't wouldn't they quit using those
services.  But back to green-backs.  No one has answered my question
about why telephone companies, computer companines, modem companies and
software companies can all make money off USENET sites and GEnie can't.
 
You guys are being completely arbitrary -- you cannot justify your
arguments.
 
> I don't want a thousand "How do I beat Level 7 on Dungeon Master" notes
> on the Net, either.
 
What has this got to do with anything?  What is this, Small's version of
the Canadian Content laws?
 
>If I've offended anyone, my apologies;
 
I should be offended by your whimping out and leaving the GEnie user in
the information poor house.  But they are the ones really hurt by your
caving in to the selfish USENET whiners.
 
>acceptable way. (That means acceptable to you, not to me, ok?)
 
Hey, your off to a bad start if you are trying to please me.  Remember
Neville Chamberline.
 
 
--
- John M. Logajan @ Network Systems;  7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 -
- logajan@ns.network.com, john@logajan.mn.org, Phn 612-424-4888, Fax 424-2853 -
 
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Date: 21 Dec 89 18:56:53 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!sbsvax!roeder@uunet.uu.net  (Edgar Roeder)
Subject: GnuEmacs 18.55 on the Atari ST
Message-ID: <1920@sbsvax.UUCP>
 
In article <928@crash.cts.com>, johnb@pnet01.cts.com (John Bunch) writes:
> Could you please post your new version....
>
 
As i have already mentioned to some people who mailed me, i have decided to
post the new version to comp.binaries.atari.st after the hollidays. The source
patches will be posted later. I will send out temacs (the bare undumped emacs),
the lisp-files to needed to dump a new version (as uncompiled .el files), the
doc-file and my dumpfix.c to merge two core dumps together to get a new,
relocatable emacs.
 
> John.
>
 
- Edgar
--
 
Mail:  Edgar R\"oder                    E-Mail: roeder@cs.uni-sb.de
       Liesbet-Dill-Stra\ss e 3
D-6602 Dudweiler                               -o-   -o-
       W-Germany                                   ~
Phone: 06897/74643                               '---'
 
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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 18:11 EST
From: <VY8620%BINGVAXA.BITNET@BINGVMC.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Subject: Replacement for ALT-HELP for 24 pin printer
 
Could someone post an ALT-HELP replacement for 24 pin printers (EPSON LQ).
Source would be nice if possible.
 
Thanks,
MikeAllen
 
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Date: 22 Dec 89 17:09:10 GMT
From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU  (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <1122891109106332@thelake.UUCP>
 
In article <34975@grapevine.uucp>,
     koreth@panarthea.ebay.sun.com (Steven Grimm) writes ...
 
>... The only way I'd support this would be if someone would write a
>quick newsgathering/reading program for the ST, and put it up in GEnie's
>program section.  UUPC will mostly work as a base for this.
 
My UUCP system (thelake) runs under TOS on a 520ST with a memory upgrade
and a homebuilt hard drive, and it handles news. There are many software
combinations that can put an ST on the net. I'll describe the one I'm
using at the moment.
 
A couple of years ago, Dale Schumacher (dal@syntel.mn.org, of dLibs fame)
hacked together a UUCP mailer called UUMAIL. It has some shortcomings, but
it's quite servicable and easy to set up. I think there are eight or ten
Minnesota sites currently using it. Many are fed comp.sys.atari.st
repackaged into mail messages by a daemon program at stag.UUCP.
 
About six months ago, I got interested in building the tools to put "real
news" on the ST. With some advice from Dale and John Stanley, I wrote an
rnews program for UUMAIL that can process batched (not compressed) news,
and a postnews program that creates RFC1036-compliant headers and pops
them into a text editor. About the same time, John wrote a really nice
program called UUREADER that organizes mail and news messages into a tree
(unlike Un*x systems, all this software works out of one big spool
directory). Kent Schumacher rewrote his UUVIEW file pager to work with
UUREADER. Although the resulting combination seems to have entered a phase
of endless beta-testing, it does work pretty well.
 
There are other irons in the fire, too -- and I expect that Smail and C
News eventually will be implemented under TOS, perhaps with multitasking
extensions, as well as under ST-Minix. I'm not directly involved in those
projects, so I'll leave it to the iron-tenders whether they want to
explain the status of their projects. I mention it only to assure people
that even though a lot of users are going to latch onto Unix as soon as it
and the TT are available, the mad hackers of the world aren't going to
abandon TOS.
 
There are, of course, other solutions. Beckemeyer sells a multitasking
UUCP package that may or may not handle news; STadel BBS does UUCP and
news; bill@meadow.UUCP said some months ago that he has a working
implementation. There may be others.
 
The real impediment to net access is not software, but rather finding a
newsfeed. Some of the people who have posted the most flamage on this
topic work for big commercial operations like AT&T and Eastman Kodak. Free
this, free that, etc. (I'm eagerly awaiting my free phone service and film
processing.) Perhaps those sites are willing to pass out UUCP connections
and newsfeeds like candy at Christmas. Send them e-mail, not me. :-)
 
--
   Steve Yelvington at the (frozen enough to skate!) lake in Minnesota
   UUCP: ... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 22 Dec 89 22:49:56 GMT
From: brunix!rjd@uunet.uu.net  (Rob Demillo)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <23620@brunix.UUCP>
 
In article <2907@ethz.UUCP> chris@bernina.ethz.ch.UUCP (Christian Dreyer)
 writes:
>That's kinda my VHO as well. One-way transfer is hardly ever fair and
>I think it won't support the Atari-community either (that should be the
>point, shouldn't it).
>
>--
>   $      Chris  Dreyer      St. Gall Graduate School for Economic and    $
 
It *should* be the point.
 
First of all, I agree *in principle* with the complaints about
GEnie using USEnet articles for profit and not reciprocating.
This posting is an attempt to represent the other side of the
coin...the side (I'm guessing) that David Small saw when he
proposed this uplink to the GEnie community.
 
I've been on GEnie, I still am on GEnie,  and I see the kind of ST (and other)
information that is on there...and I feel that USEnet info is far
superior. The conversation threads make more sense, I get a lot of good
technical info, etc. GEnie postings consist mostly of non-technical
non-informative conversations....there are the odd exceptions, like the
RT discussions that Small holds, etc.
 
Let's face it, USEnet is a community of profession CS people, Engineers
and scientists - as well as students and graduate students in those
areas...GEnie consists mostly of home hobbiests, business professionals,
and (generally) non-technical types.
 
It seems to me there *would* be a benifit to the Atari community by allowing
USEnet info to go wherever it is needed.
 
In addition, there are 10's of 1000's of people who can *not* get access
to USEnet, would you deny them our info/rumors/conversations/etc?
 
 
 
 - Rob DeMillo                  | Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu
   Brown University             | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU
   Planetary Science Group      | Reality: 401-273-0804 (home)
"I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #852
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