=========================================================================
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Sat, 23 Dec 89       Volume 89 : Issue  855
 
Today's Topics:
                     GEnie uplink is shut down..
                     RCS for the ST (no, not yet)
                         Source code control
                  USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Dec 89 16:59:30 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdsu!crash!canada@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Diane Barlow Close)
Subject: GEnie uplink is shut down..
Message-ID: <966@crash.cts.com>
 
Well, the GEnie-Usenet link is down.  So much for all the doom-
and-gloom-sayers in news.misc who figured that Usenet is too
disorganized to accomplish anything.  I'd say we were pretty
successful (this time).
 
Some of you might be interested in the events that led me to post
about Dave Small's idea in such a strongly-worded way.  Also, it
is my only chance to ``talk'' to Dave directly since he's not
answering his mail (or is it just my mail :-)  No surprise there.
 
I had known about the Usenet-GEnie link for several days before
it was actually announced.  When I was first told it existed (not
many details were given) and I thought the link was a great idea.
It presented another place to send news.  After all, isn't the
purpose of Usenet to be a free-flow of information,
spreading as much information, around to as many sites, as
possible?
 
What I didn't know then was that the Usenet news being placed on
GEnie was being covered by their copyright (or at least the GEnie
people figured the news was now copyrighted).  I discovered this
fact the day of Dave's ``the link is up'' posting.  In a
discussion about a friend trying to obtain several of my Usenet
postings from the Usenet-uplink area of GEnie, GEnie customer
service people threatened to ``sue'' any site found posting news
that GEnie had received from Usenet *after* GEnie had received it
('cause the Usenet news now ``belonged'' to GEnie).
 
Before all you amateur copyright lawyers send follow-up flames,
let me assure you that I realize the ridiculousness and
unenforceabililty of this situation.  GEnie *can't* copyright
something that's already in the public domain.  (And I probably
got stuck talking to a tired, over-zealous GEnie representative,
rather than an ``informed'' person.)  But, the confusion
surrounding this situation on GEnie's part was enough to get me
worried.
 
Next I received some reliable information that Dave was on the
verge of licensing the ``link technology'' to GEnie.  If we
didn't act very fast to convince Dave to rethink the link, it
wouldn't matter if *his* atari newsgroup-GEnie link were shut
down, 'cause GEnie would be busy draining (and copyrighting) the
rest of Usenet.  (And Dave, Mark Booth did NOT give me this
information, so you can start talking to him again.)
 
Next, Dave's ``the link is up'' posting carried the tone of `the
link is carved in stone, the only thing that I'll change is
whether individual's postings are removed'.  After careful
consideration of all the events, I was convinced me that I had to
spurred me to strike in the quickest, hardest manner I
could.
 
I believed I didn't have much time to waste with gentle, ``let's
think about this guys'' letters.  Sorry my strongly worded
posting irritated Dave, but it had the desired effect very
quickly:  mobilize as many people as possible to convince Dave to
re-think the link.  While I knew that many of you would post
loud, angry responses, I knew that many more would write quiet,
well-reasoned responses (showing *both* sides of the argument) in
answer to my posting.  I believe my ``inciteful'' posting put
many, many more reasoned responses in Dave's mailbox than if I
had written an easily-ignored, calmly-worded appeal to the net.
I wanted to spur as many people to respond as possible, and I
think I was successful.
 
That's not to say I was just in this ``battle'' to raise the cry
and then leave.  No sir.  I was prepared for the long haul.  Dave
actually surprised me when he withdrew the link so suddenly after
only a few days of protest.  His first posting led me to believe
that the link would be here for a long time no matter what.
 
So now I don't have to write to the management of GEnie, and I
don't have to organize petitions, and I don't have to appeal to
sites feeding GEnie to stop.  There was even a movement to change
news sending software so that it attached ``copylefts'' to *whole
batches* of news, thus preventing GEnie from using many, many
postings.
 
Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation must be
commended for coming up with, and organizing the execution of,
that last idea.  I'd also like to thank Richard for placing the
FSF's lawyers at my disposal.  I'm very happy I didn't need to
use them.
 
I'd like to thank Dave for giving the net the best Christmas
present we could ever have wanted:  peace for the present and
hope for the future.
 
I'd like to go on record as saying I'm NOT against sites that
make a profit from Usenet, nor do I have many problems with read-
only sites.  I do, however, have serious problems with any site
that tries to copyright my (or anyone's) postings and prevent the
dissemination of information.
 
I'd like to work with Dave to make the GEnie-Usenet link viable
and useful (for both sides).  If Dave declines my offer (and I
expect he will :-) then I hope he at least posts his link ideas
for the net for discussion *before* implementation.  It would be
even better if he accepted the help and support of the many, many
knowledgeable people who volunteered it this week.
 
Well, that's all I have to say on the topic.  The rest of you can
continue this discussion (as I know you will).  Don't let it
degenerate into too much name-calling.  :-)
 
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone (even you,
Dave :-)
--
Diane Barlow Close
      ?nosc, ucsd?!crash!canada
      canada@crash.cts.com
      Free Canada -- Trade Mulroney
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 18 Dec 89 23:18:15 GMT
From:
 snorkelwacker!ira.uka.de!smurf!gopnbg!altger!watzman!michaelv@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.
 EDU  (Michael Vishchers)
Subject: RCS for the ST (no, not yet)
Message-ID: <1666@watzman.UUCP>
 
From article <15412@laurel.athertn.Atherton.COM>, by alex@athertn.Atherton.COM
 (Alex Leavens):
> Well, I've got my hot little hands on the source code for the original
> UNIX RCS system, and plan (in my copious spare time :-) to start porting
> it to the ST.  Anyone have any suggestions/comments/etc. to make about
> conventions I should follow, or other, similar things?
>
> For example, I think that things are stored in RCS in the form
> <filename>.c,v
> which is fine for Unix, but...well, you know how the ST is.  I'd planned
> to change this to
> <filename>.c_v
 
I don't think this needs to be done. When unsharing the amiga files on the ST,
 everything
with foo.c,v worked well. But we should consider what is to be done with long
 suffixes, i.e.
foo.sh,v becomes foo.sh, , and what becomes of foo.bar,v ???
 
Anyway, it's good to hear about your efforts.
 
Michael
 
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Michael Vishchers                                     (michaelv@watzman.UUCP)
"Wer fuer alles offen ist, kann nicht ganz dicht sein." (unbekannt)
_____________________________________________________________________________
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 18 Dec 89 20:25:52 GMT
From: usc!snorkelwacker!ira.uka.de!smurf!gopnbg!altger!watzman!michaelv@ucsd.edu
  (Michael Vishchers)
Subject: Source code control
Message-ID: <1663@watzman.UUCP>
 
From article <15308@laurel.athertn.Atherton.COM>, by alex@athertn.Atherton.COM
 (Alex Leavens):
[alex asking for a source code control system for the ST]
 
A port of Walter (?) Tichy's RCS for the Amiga was recently posted to
comp.?sources|binaries?.amiga. Unfortunately, all the sources were in
RCS files, and I don't have an Amiga to run the binaries.
(Besides, two of the source parts were missing, anyway... 8-? )
 
If anyone is doing such a port for the ST, which IMHO should not be too
difficult, lots of us would appreciate a release to the c.?b|s?.a.st
newsgroups, I think.
 
Michael
 
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Michael Vishchers                                     (michaelv@watzman.UUCP)
"Wer fuer alles offen ist, kann nicht ganz dicht sein." (unbekannt)
_____________________________________________________________________________
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 23 Dec 89 16:19:37 GMT
From: maytag!water!ljdickey@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu  (L.J.Dickey)
Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working
Message-ID: <2872@water.waterloo.edu>
 
In article <15097@well.UUCP> dsmall@well.UUCP (David Small) writes:
 |      It's time to announce that there is now a working uplink
 | from USENET to GEnie.
 |  ... The link is one way. GEnie makes its living selling information
 | bases to the public, and doesn't want them downloaded and distributed freely.
 
It sounds to me like you could be on the verge of making an
important contribution to expanding this news group.
 
However, I would prefer to have GEnie allow two-way exchanges.
Perhaps if the GEnie people see that they can benefit from the
inclusion of the mesages, they will reciprocate and allow their
users to respond to this group as well.
 
I know that my contributions are small, but (in my humble opinion),
I think they are positive.  Somehow it rankles to think that someone
else is taking my work, freely given, and translating it into a profit.
Moreover, they are imposing their own form of restriction by imposing
an "anthology copyright" which some folks interpret (incorrectly, I
think) as restricting them from passing it on.
 
--
    L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
        ljdickey@water.UWaterloo.ca     ljdickey@water.BITNET
        ljdickey@water.UUCP             ..!uunet!watmath!water!ljdickey
        ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu
 
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #855
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