=========================================================================
 
INFO-ATARI16 Digest         Mon, 12 Feb 90       Volume 90 : Issue  193
 
Today's Topics:
                   16 meg partition limit (2 msgs)
                       disk caches  for 1040ST
               drawings -< pic, laserjet, postscript??
                            Fine scrollin'
                          Hard Drive Problem
                          Shareware Policy.
                So long and thanks for all the fish...
                          Tape Drive Backup
                  User support? Re: harddisk-backup
                             zoo problems
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 6 Feb 90 22:36:37 GMT
From:
 pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-e
 mx!linus!sjsca4!greg@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Greg Wageman)
Subject: 16 meg partition limit
Message-ID: <1990Feb6.223637.15845@sj.ate.slb.com>
 
Opinions expressed are the responsibility of the author.
 
In article <20465@watdragon.waterloo.edu> swklassen@tiger.waterloo.edu (Steven
 W. Klassen) writes:
>
>Here is a question about the 16 meg partition limit.  I purchased an
>Atari Megafile 60 a number of months ago.  From the part number I
>believe it used a Seagate drive.  The manual that came with it
>mentioned the 16 meg limit, however, the utilities which came
>with it allowed me to make larger partitions.  I decided to experiment
>with this.  I made a partition a fair bit larger than 16 meg (I believe
>it was about 24 meg but I don't recall for sure) then tested it by
>copying a program onto it multiple times (giving it a unique name each
>time) and then reading the files (actually some selected copies of it
>from throughout the hard drive) and everything worked fine.  I have
>kept my large partition and have not had a problem with it yet (although
>I also haven't filled more than about 11 meg on that partition, except
>of course during the test I mentioned earlier).
>
>Does anyone have comments on this?  Did some of the later versions
>of TOS 1.0 or 1.1 or whatever it is in my 1040, allow for larger
>partitions?  Did some of the later versions of the driver program
>allow for larger partitions, patching TOS appropriately?
 
One reason there was a 16M limit on hard disk partitions is because
the Rwabs() function which does the physical I/O is specified as
taking a signed integer (16 bit) value for the "recno" parameter.
This means that the sector number can only range from 0 to 32767, for
a total of 32768 sectors.  Since Atari-compatible disks have 512 bytes
per sector, that means you are limited to 32768 * 512 = 16 777 216
bytes (16 Megabytes) per partition.
 
What Atari has changed, I believe, is to treat the "recno" parameter
as an UNSIGNED int, with a range of 0 to 65535, and consequently a
32Mb limit.  However, any software which calls Rwabs() to directly
access the hard disk (such as disk checkers might do) must understand
this convention, or else they will get confused by the (apparently)
negative sector numbers (i.e. any in the second 16 Meg with the
high-order bit set).
 
Personally, I am absolutely paranoid about hard disk integrity, and
will limit myself to 16 Meg or smaller partitions.  Besides, once you
get about 4 Meg of stuff in a partition, the old Dfree()/FAT search
bug rears up, and file creation takes nearly forever.  It is, however,
a good motivation to get Rainbow TOS.
 
Copyright 1990 Greg Wageman     DOMAIN: greg@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies       UUCP:   ?uunet,decwrl,amdahl?!sjsca4!greg
San Jose, CA 95110-1397         BIX: gwage  CIS: 74016,352  GEnie: G.WAGEMAN
 Permission is granted for reproduction provided this notice is maintained.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Feb 90 04:50:15 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!brazil@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Timothy E.
 Onders)
Subject: 16 meg partition limit
Message-ID: <8%90M%@rpi.edu>
 
In article <1990Feb6.223637.15845@sj.ate.slb.com> greg@sj.ate.slb.com (Greg
 Wageman) writes:
>
>What Atari has changed, I believe, is to treat the "recno" parameter
>as an UNSIGNED int, with a range of 0 to 65535, and consequently a
>32Mb limit.  However, any software which calls Rwabs() to directly
 
Actually, the logical sector size was also increased to 1024 bytes, along
with some other modifications.  Maximum partition size is now 1024 Megs,
or 1 gig.  I'm presently running off of a 40 meg partition, and I wouldn't
go back for anything.
 
>access the hard disk (such as disk checkers might do) must understand
>this convention, or else they will get confused by the (apparently)
>negative sector numbers (i.e. any in the second 16 Meg with the
>high-order bit set).
 
The big problem now is that the program may not be able to deal with the
1024 byte logical sectors, since most just assume 512 byte sectors.  The
physical sectors, however, are still 512 bytes.
 
>get about 4 Meg of stuff in a partition, the old Dfree()/FAT search
>bug rears up, and file creation takes nearly forever.  It is, however,
>a good motivation to get Rainbow TOS.
>
Never seen this problem, even though I've still got 1.2. Hmmm.
 
                                -Tim Onders
                                brazil@pawl.rpi.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Feb 90 04:52:17 GMT
From: usenet.ins.cwru.edu!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!bammi@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
 (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: disk caches  for 1040ST
Message-ID: <BAMMI.90Feb12234717@dsrgsun.ces.CWRU.Edu>
 
In article <3561@tahoe.unr.edu> mikew@wheeler (Mike Whitbeck) writes:
> I also tried dcache (Dijkstra). I believe it only caches read
> buffers and not write. I would like to cache both read/write
> operations (floppy and hard disks) and have control over
> flushing the buffers (e.g. a 'sync' command).
 
        Dcache does all of the above. (sync via 'dcache =f' if i remember
correctly, or via the supplied ACC). It can optionally *not* write
through.
--
bang:   ?any internet host?!dsrgsun.ces.CWRU.edu!bammi  jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@dsrgsun.ces.CWRU.edu
GEnie:  J.Bammi
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Feb 90 14:51:23 GMT
From: att!cbnewsj!rcd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (rana.c.dutt)
Subject: drawings -< pic, laserjet, postscript??
Message-ID: <3831@cbnewsj.ATT.COM>
 
In article <273@fornax.UUCP>, chapman@fornax.UUCP (John Chapman) writes:
>   Does anyone have, or know of, a program which will let you
>   create (relatively) simple line drawings and which will
>   produce as output (in order of preference)
>
>   1. [troff] PIC commands
>   2. an HP LaserJet
>   3. Postscript
 
The drawing tools in Pagestream 1.8 are very good. After you're done,
you simply load the printer driver you want from Pagestream's wide
selection of output modules, which includes the HP Laserjet and Postscript.
I have both the HP Deskjet and the Paintjet, and the output quality on both
is excellent.
 
If you want to merge these drawings into troff documents, I suggest you
convert your troff output to postscript first, with a postscript
post-processor. Then merge the postscript generated from Pagestream into it.
 
Rana Dutt
rcd@mtqua.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Feb 90 00:51:31 GMT
From:
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sunybcs!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!kodak!elmgat
 e!jdg@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Jeff Gortatowsky CUST)
Subject: Fine scrollin'
Message-ID: <1199@elmgate.UUCP>
 
Anyone out there able to give me a clue on how fine scrolling is
accomplished on an ST? I'm more interested in horizontal than vertical,
but, desire info on both. do we Blit? If so, what "limits" are placed
upon the Blit in respect to amount .vs. algorythm degradation?
How do we keep it "smooth"... Etc. I know SOMEONE! out there must know..
Is there a DOC on this someplace? Any/all help appreciated. (this is the 3rd
time Ive asked... Please!?).
 
 
 
 
--
Jeff Gortatowsky-Eastman Kodak Company  .....rochester!kodak!elmgate!jdg
(use uuhosts or such to find path to rochester)
Eastman Kodak makes film not comments.  Therefore these comments are mine
not theirs.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Feb 90 13:53:26 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzsc!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (HC Johnson)
Subject: Hard Drive Problem
Message-ID: <1284@lzsc.ATT.COM>
 
In article <QZ7$-+@rpi.edu>, brazil@pawl.rpi.edu (Timothy E. Onders) writes:
> I've got a problem I hope someone can help me with.  I've just recently
> upgraded my HD, and now I'm having some problems.
>
> My old hard drive is a pre-production SH-204. It contains an NEC 20 meg
> mechanism, an Adaptatec 4000A controller, and an Atari host adaptor,
> along with the power supply.
>
> I purchased a Priam V185 mechanism to replace the NEC to bring the system
> I then booted the system with HDX 3.01 to format the drive. HDX reported
 
> that the "Selected drive is not responding. Check cables or inser a disk."
> I tried this a couple of times, and it just didn't work.
>
> On a whim, I decided to power everything down and switch the little cable
> from the drive to the other connector on the Adaptatec, J1.  I then tried
> No luck. So, I tried changing the LUN setting in ICDFMT from 0 to 1. This
> time, it formatted. It also verified all the sectors and said that
 
1. re LUN 0 -- you may have miss alligned the plug by 1 pin.
2. re LUN 1 -- The disk drivers ( ICD, SUPRA, BMS)  will stop looking
   at a SCSI device if LUN 0 is not ready.  They will then never test LUN 1.
   -- I rewrote mine to test LUN 1 also.
 
-- Of course, Atari, NEVER test LUN 1!
 
Your initial problem is typical of the problems with expanding/changing
a disk interface.  The drive is connected by 2 cables each of which may be
upside down, and the LUN (small) cable can be plugged in 2 places.  Lots
of ways to do it wrong; only one way to do it right.  The good news is that
the wrong ways (listed above) do not seem to damage anything.
 
Now that you know it works, try going back to LUN0.  It'll probably work great.
 
 
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
=====NEW address====
att!lzsc!hcj
hcj@lzsc.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Feb 90 09:38:44 GMT
From:
 eru!luth!sunic!mcsun!unido!laura!klute%heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de@bloom-b
 eacon.mit.edu  (Rainer Klute)
Subject: Shareware Policy.
Message-ID: <1969@laura.UUCP>
 
In article <90020603025378@masnet.uucp> lyn.ibson@canremote.uucp (LYN IBSON)
 writes:
>Back to one of the initial problems, Rainer -- how do we in Canada get a
>shareware registration fee to you. (I don't even know what the account
>number you refer to in your ARCGSH messages is for!)
 
Hmm, I don't know anything about the problems over there. I
thing we have to start a cooperation and try to work this out
together. (Money transfer should not be any problem at all for
huge amounts of money are shoveled around the world permanently
within a few minutes.
 
The following information I can provide: Here in Germany each
bank has a name (in my case it is "Postgiroamt Hannover") and a
unique number, the so-called BLZ (Bankleitzahl = bank code),
which is "250 100 30" in my case. Finally my personal bank
account has the number "4412 46-300".
 
To transfer money to me you should take the information above,
walk to your bank and ask the clerk how to do it. They are the
experts, they really should know. I would like to hear
how/whether you succeeded!
 
  Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute      klute@heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
  Univ. Dortmund, IRB             klute@unido.uucp, klute@unido.bitnet
  Postfach 500500         |)|/    ...uunet!mcvax!unido!klute
D-4600 Dortmund 50        |\|\    Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90  22:26 GMT
From: Jan Ameij <AMEIJ%vax.oxford.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK>
Subject: So long and thanks for all the fish...
 
Well, info-atari16 is due to die in the next day or two, and as our mail system
here is somewhat erratic at the moment, I thought I'd get my farewell message
in now...
 
Thank you everyone, on both sides of the Atlantic, and further afield, for the
help I have had from this mailing list. I am very grateful, particularly to the
Atari people who seem unfailingly helpful and patient!
 
 
                                                Ta-ta,
                                                Jan Ameij.
 
PS If anyone this (east) side has any questions on TeX on the Atari, I'm happy
to give what knowledge/advice/wild guesses I can. The address is:
        ameij@uk.ac.oxford.vax
 
PPS Those with long memories may remember that I asked about music typesetting.
Well, I was put in touch with Take Control Ltd., of Birmingham, whose "Music
Publisher" seems to do almost everything I want. I have been very impressed by
their demo disk and sample output, and I am now saving up the 300 pounds for
the real thing. (This is the summary back). Bye again, JA
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Feb 90 14:32:04 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzsc!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (HC Johnson)
Subject: Tape Drive Backup
Message-ID: <1285@lzsc.ATT.COM>
 
> writes about a tape unit available from BMS:  While I appreciate his sharing
> the info with the net, I honestly can't understand why anyone would choose
> the option he describes over the ICD FA*ST Tape Backup unit.  I don't have
 
First you need an Atari Host Adapter that handles multiple SCSI correctly.
BMS-200 does this.  ICD FA*ST claims to.  LATE issue SUPRA claim to.
 
Second ingredient is the Adaptec 3530A Adapter.
 
Third ingredient is a Archeive or equivalent QIC-36 tape unit.
 
All in all, its not cheap.  But the best way to back up large HD's.
 
A note on speed.  The tape units run at the same speed.  For 1:1 formatted
HD's, the software can read in 1 track (17 sectors) while writing it to
tape (using the internal buffer in the 3530A. (for purests, the tape will
only accept 16 sectors at a time, so the HD has to be able to read across
the head switch very quickly.)
 
The goal is to keep the tape moving continuously.  If at any time it runs
out of data to write, it must write a long trailer, stop, backspace,and
wait to restart.  This is really slow.
If the drive doesn't seek fast enough (sh204), the tape stops from
time to time and has to restart.
If formatted 2:1 or worse, the HD allows you to format for 18 sectors/track.
And the backup writes 16 sectors and stops (see above), then restarts.
The Tape sounds busy, but quickly drops to 1 meg a minute or worse.
 
I have a BMS-200, controlling 1 3530A tape, and 2 Adaptec 4000A connected
to HD's. Formatted 1:1 with my own backup software (derived from BMS's
early work) I get 6-7 megabyte per minute. I definitely appreciate being
ATT and SUN compatible.  (I got Jwahar Bammi to send me all of gnu-xxx
on 1 tape written on a SUN; read it in and go. WOW!).
 
I would definitely recommend Cartridge Tape for backup.  The bigger the
HD, the more you need it.
BMS makes good stuff, it is aimed to the do-it-yourselfer.  ICD has a
a good sounding product and package.  Either way it is a good way to go.
 
I save partitions, rather than raw disk by sector number.  This lets be
do two things. One, I can restore a single partition or copy it to another
disk.  Second, by judiciously rewriting tos.c from MINIX, I can actually
access and read files from the tape directly.  The ultimate for the
Cartridge Tape is to adapt a CPIO clone (such a gnuxxx) to read and write
the CT.  This is then compatible with UNIX(r), MINIX, and TOS.
 
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
=====NEW address====
att!lzsc!hcj
hcj@lzsc.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 13 Feb 90 01:52:56 GMT
From: naucse!tar@arizona.edu  (Tim Roeder)
Subject: User support? Re: harddisk-backup
Message-ID: <1877@naucse.UUCP>
 
In article <8533@pogo.WV.TEK.COM>, bluneski@pogo.WV.TEK.COM (Bob Luneski)
 writes:
>
> In <"90-02-09-11:06:10.92*UK14"@DKAUNI2.BITNET> O. Steinmeier writes:
>
> >...
> >So, if you know a reliable, fast, cheap (PD or shareware preferred)
> >harddisk backup program, would you send me a message?
>
> So you want it to be fast, reliable, and do everything but wash the kitchen
> sink but you don't want to pay for it????  Typical.
 
I would like the know just what is wrong with wanting to get a useful piece of
software as cheaply as possible.  As I recall there are very GOOD packages for
non-Atari computers in the public domain (PD/Shareware) that do things as well
or better than commercial packages at a fraction of the cost.  What's the
matter, having a bit of hard luck??
 
>
> Besides the TOTAL lack of support from Atari Corp.(products, marketing, and
> distribution) the single most important factor contributing to the decline
> (and eventual death unless something changes) of the ST is the unwillingness
> of users to PAY for quality software.  NOBODY wants to develop software for
> a machine that you can only sell 500 copies of a program before it's on half
> the bulletin boards across the country.
>
 
Even though the first part of the above statement is for the most part true, I
think that it is ENTIRELY uncalled for to make such a statement vis-a-vis
commercial software on Pirate BBS'es.  You obviously have a serious attitude
problem.
 
> Unless Atari starts selling more machines so there are a few more users to buy
> software AND unless ST users start supporting the machine through the purchase
> of quality software there won't be any quality software to purchase!
>
 
While I do agree with the necessity of support for commercial software for the
ST, I dislike the tone that you have used in your little tantrum.  If you can't
make a positive contribution to the net, then just BE QUIET!
 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>   Bob Luneski
>   Diamond Back Support Hotline:  bluneski@pogo.WV.TEK.COM
>                                  Genie: B.LUNESKI1
>
>   The opinions expressed herein are my own and in no way reflect the
>   opinions of Tektronix, Inc.
 
Hm, a disgruntled (but obviously otherwise gainfully employed) developer, eh?
 
In response to the original poster's request, I have used the TURTLE backup
program by George Woodside successfully for a number of years now.  It should
be available from the various servers (I'm sure it's at terminator...).  If
you are unable to ftp, you can get it off of my wife's BBS 7 days a week, from
10PM-7AM MST.  The number is:  602-578-9115.  I hope that this helps you out,
Mr.(?) Steinmeier.
 
(To Bob:  See how easy it is to do something constructive as opposed to whining
about how 'rough' life is?)
 
Timothy Roeder
<don't know if my .sig works anymore or not...been so long since I've responded
in this manner...>
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 12 Feb 90 18:26:50 GMT
From: att!cbnewsm!wao@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (william.a.oswald)
Subject: zoo problems
Message-ID: <9221@cbnewsm.ATT.COM>
 
Has anyone on the net successfully unpacked a zoo file
(anything.zoo) using any of the available zoo programs?
I have down loaded several .zoo files using XMODEM and
KERMIT and have tried to unpack them using several ZOO
programs (booz for example). Nothing works. I always
get a CRC error.
 
Thanks
Bill wao@cbnewsm.att.com
     wao@aloft.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V90 Issue #193
*****************************************
