Info-Atari16 Digest         Sun, 10 Nov 91       Volume 91 : Issue 587
 
Today's Topics:
                         8mhz ST = 16mhz 386
                            Falcon on Ste?
                               For Sale
                 Help needed - Inline assembly in MWC
                     how fast is an 8 MHz 68000?
                        Is It Kosher? (2 msgs)
            Looking for ST software to design a floorplan
                   Software availability in Germany
                          Software for sale
                    Source-level debuggers for C?
             using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager (3 msgs)
                          WD1772 IC (2 msgs)
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 00:09:38 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun!tamuts!n160ao@arizona.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov6.160344.21699@msb.com> ritz@msb.com (Chris Mauritz) writes:
>BTW, you can now buy a 486-50mhz clone decked out with a large (200mb+)
>hard disk, 8mb RAM, and 1024X768 color graphics for about $3000+change.
 
Is 200mb considered large these days.  The puney work-station (PS/2 Model 80
with 12Mbytes RAM) had only 320Mbytes of disk space and I was very pressured
for space.  I would think that I would say a 1 to 2 gigabyte disk is a large
hard disk.
 
I also don't necessarily agree with Chris Mauritz that there is so much
support and quality software for the Intel 80486 architecture.  I don't
usually see lots of support for many AIX or SCO UNIX or other UNIX programs.
Basing all comparisons on one operating system for the 80486 is bad.
While DOS is probably good for the average user, so is TOS.  But Chris
is making the comparison based on excellent performance.  If you put
UNIX on a 68000 machine, you get better performance than UNIX on a
Intel 80286 machine.  The same goes for the Motorola counterparts to the
80386 and 80486 CPUs.
 
If I was going to invest $3000 in a computer system, I would put some device
on it that would electrically shock any person attempting to run DOS or
a DOS based program on it.
 
Mark Lehmann
tamuts.tamu.edu!n160ao
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 05:43:37 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pipe!boyd@a
 rizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: Falcon on Ste?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov9.022334.21078@ads.com>, pdel@ADS.COM (Peter Delevoryas)
 writes:
>
>I just picked up an old copy of Falcon from the net. Turns out it
>doesn't run on my STe. A call to tech support informed me that
>
>1. It's not transferable, so out of luck for support.
>2. It's an older version, so will probably not work on the STe
>3. Go buy a copy at the store.
>
 
The system admin at whatever site you got Falcon from should be notified
that he/she is distributing copyrighted software.  This is not cool, and
could put a chunk of the net in trouble.  Your blatant admitance of this
could put this newsgroup in jeopardy.  Please send email to root@<machine>,
where <machine> is whereever you got Falcon.  Unless this is a company
authorized demo version of the program, serious legal caca could result
(especially since you apparently told Spectrum Holobyte about it also).
 
--
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
             Mickey R. Boyd          |  "Come to your senses professor
          FSU Computer Science       |     Fernberg.  You did not transcend
        Technical Support Group      |     the time-space continuum.  You
       email:  boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu    |     got drunk in a topless bar."
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 17:58:52 GMT
From: SERVER.CS.JHU.EDU!niko@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Subject: For Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
For Sale:
 
- MultiGEM. A good package but needs a hard disk or two disk drives
to work well. I only have a single drive system. Three weeks old.
Good for ST,STe,TT. Asking $40 +sh.
 
- Replay VII (8) Sound digitizer+Editor and Drumbeat software.
A couple of months old. Works fine. Asking $40+sh
 
Both items are in good condition, come with original manuals,disks,boxes.
 
 
niko@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu
nikolaid@radical-boy.cs.jhu.edu
vasilis@JHUVMS.bitnet
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 17:59:59 GMT
From: noao!ncar!hsdndev!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!harryk@arizona.edu (Harry
 Karayiannis)
Subject: Help needed - Inline assembly in MWC
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <jensen.689545293@schulz> jensen@nosc.mil (Layne Jensen) writes:
>I recently acquired a copy of Mark Williams C version 3.06.  I have scoured
>the manual to find out how to include in-line assembly code in the C source
>program, but cannot find any references to it.
>
>Am I somehow missing the part of the manual that discusses it, or does the
>compiler not support in-line assembler?  If you know how to do it or know
>that it isn't possible, I would appreciate hearing either way.  Apologies
>if I have somehow missed the obvious.
>
 
  There is no need for in-line assembly with MWC because you can have your
assembly code in a different file and just compile it together with the
rest of your C code files...however, you should use MW specific assembly
languange, as it is described in the manual (under topic: as)...it is
quite similar to 68000 asssembly...(i also think that MWC provides a flag
-VM6800 or something like that...for using 68000 assembly)
 
Hope I helped..
 
 
>Layne Jensen                         jensen@nosc.MIL
>Naval Ocean Systems Center           ...!sdcsvax!noscvax!jensen
>San Diego, CA
>--
>
>Layne Jensen                         jensen@nosc.MIL
>Naval Ocean Systems Center           ...!sdcsvax!noscvax!jensen
>San Diego, CA
 
=============================================================================
Author of ATZENTA2         Harry Karayiannis           ________E-Mail________
                    15 N.Beacon, #316   Boston Univ.  |INTERnet:
**  || ATARI   **   Allston, MA 02134   Computer Sc.  | harryk@bucsf.bu.edu
** /||\ MegaST **   U.S.A.                            |BITnet:
======================================================| cscrzcc@buacca.bu.edu
                                                       ----------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 05:02:04 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ar
 izona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: how fast is an 8 MHz 68000?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
[In article <rreiner.689714815@yorku.ca>,
     rreiner@nexus.yorku.ca (Richard Reiner) writes ... ]
 
 > There is one anomaly: a second entry for a Mega 2, this time using
 > Turbo C, which comes in at 1650 dhrystones/sec.
 >
 > I'm not sure what to make of this, especially when combined with the
 > related claims that have been made here about Turbo C.  Can Turbo C
 > for the Atari really generate code twice as good as that of any of the
 > other 15 or so 68000 compilers listed in the results table?
 
Turbo C probably does a respectable job of optimizing, but the
biggest difference stems from the method that the Turbo C compiler
uses to pass arguments to functions. Most C compilers push arguments
onto the stack. Turbo/Pure C passes arguments in registers, where
possible. Register references are much faster than references to
stack memory. Thus Turbo C's function calls execute faster.
 
Only 15% of dhrystone's statements involve function calls, according
to the documentation, but function calls are far more ``expensive''
in terms of machine time than the other components (assignments and
control statements). Anything that speeds up function calls will have
a marked effect on the number of dhrystone loops per second.
 
 --
 Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota      <steve@thelake.mn.org>
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 04:53:51 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!rose.waterloo.edu!cjherborth
 @arizona.edu (Chris Herborth)
Subject: Is It Kosher?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <9831@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
}Is it okay to submit the PageStream fonts from GEnie
}to the atari archiver?
 
If you mean the Adobe Type-1 fonts, sure.  They're PD or SW.  You could
also ftp huge amounts of them from Mac/PC archives, such as
mac.archive.umich.edu (these are all BinHex'd and archived with Mac
archivers, so Spectre would be a big help here)...  I'm still waiting for
the location of a good type-1 archive site to show up in
comp.lang.postscript...  Maybe we should ask.
 
}I can go broke real fast d/ling all of the PgS 2.1
}fonts now on GEnie.
 
No kidding...  My bill is > $80 for the second month in a row...  You might
want to check out the local PC/Mac BBSs in your area...  Anything for
ATM should work, if it happens to have AFM and PFB files...
 
---------------=============================================---------------
Chris Herborth, 3B Hons English RPW    cjherborth@{rose|lotus}.waterloo.edu
"C'mon Mr. Big Round Balls, lets go make us some          GEnie: C.HERBORTH
easy money!" - Bobby "Just Like The Country" Peru
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 13:01:53 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard
 Covert)
Subject: Is It Kosher?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov10.045351.27486@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
 cjherborth@rose.waterloo.edu (Chris Herborth) writes:
>In article <9831@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>}Is it okay to submit the PageStream fonts from GEnie
>}to the atari archiver?
>
>If you mean the Adobe Type-1 fonts, sure.  They're PD or SW.  You could
>also ftp huge amounts of them from Mac/PC archives, such as
>mac.archive.umich.edu (these are all BinHex'd and archived with Mac
>archivers, so Spectre would be a big help here)...  I'm still waiting for
>the location of a good type-1 archive site to show up in
>comp.lang.postscript...  Maybe we should ask.
>
>---------------=============================================---------------
>Chris Herborth, 3B Hons English RPW    cjherborth@{rose|lotus}.waterloo.edu
 
 
Well, I read the recent GEnie message in the Softlogik Roundtable and  SL folks
have converted mainly PC Adobne Type I fonts to work with the ST Page Stream
program. Som, the fonts on the SLRT on Genie have been testeds with the ST
PgS 2.1 program.
 
that is why I was asking about those foints in specific.
 
Since they are public domain I don't see why they can't be archive along witfgh
the other Calamus fonts on the Atari archive machine.
 
 
As far as using any of the mac fonts currently being archived on the nertwrok,
they would have to be converted. Many of them already have been converted and
 are
up on GEnie in the SL RT already.
 
My GEnie bill is running about $50.00 a month w/o spending $$ d/ling PgS fonts!!
 
So, I repeat, is it kosher to archive thopse GEnie PgS fonts on the network?
 
And has someone already done this?
 
I know that there are Calamus fonts on ther Atari archiver already.
,
.
.
.
.
--
Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 20:04:05 GMT
From: ogicse!milton!sumax!polari!rwing!eskimo!zorko@uunet.uu.net (Mike Berg)
Subject: Looking for ST software to design a floorplan
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
References: <1991Nov5.140713.9812@irscscm.UUCP>
 
In article <1991Nov5.140713.9812@irscscm.UUCP>, mlake@irscscm.UUCP
(Marshall Lake) writes:
>
> Is there software available for the Atari ST to aid in the design of
> house floorplans?  And what are personal opinions concerning the
> product(s)?
>
> --
> Marshall Lake
> mlake@irscscm.UUCP
> ...!uunet!media!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake
 
 
--
Athena II has all the things needed to draw floor plans.  It has an
automatic measureing system and icons for electrical and plumbing
symbles.  As I remember, it was priced at about $100.
_____________________________________________________________________
zorko@eskimo.celestial.com | Have GOLD dredge, will travel.  If'n you
 Mike Berg @ ESKIMO NORTH  | know where it's at, I know how to git it
(206) 367-3837 SEATTLE WA. | out! I would like to hear from other
 A Public System, Try Us!  | prospectors, mail me!  GO FOR THE GOLD!!
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 17:14:47 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!vivaldi.ecn.purdue.edu!y
 egerleh@arizona.edu (James D Yegerlehner)
Subject: Software availability in Germany
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello,
 
It's common knowledge that Atari sells a lot more STs in Germany than
here in the US.  I would expect that because of this that there would
be a much bigger software base there.  Yet apart from a few applications,
not much software is available here apart from applications developed
here in the US.  Could any of you guys over there post a brief listing
of the state of the art software in each of the following categories:
1. DTP,  2. Mathematics software (anything like Mathcad for windows,
now that FSM GDOS is available) 3. CAD  4. C compilers (I'm aware
of Pure C) 5. Anything else that you can thing of that is bemerkungswert
that I didn't list here.
 
German docs aren't a problem for me because I can read German, but
I suppose most people here can't, so it would be good if you
could say if German or English docs are available.  Also, the address
of a distributor would be handy, if that's not too much too ask.
 
On behalf of this side of the Atlantic, I thank you in advance!
 
Jim
 
--
__  __               |    |
 \  / __  __  __  __ | __ |__  __  __  __      Jim Yegerlehner
  \/ |--'|  ||--'|   ||--'|  ||  ||--'|        1132 Hawkins Graduate House
   | `-- `--|`-- |   |`-- |  ||  |`-- |        W. Lafayette  IN 47906
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 00:29:26 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!vivaldi.ecn.purdue.edu!y
 egerleh@arizona.edu (James D Yegerlehner)
Subject: Software for sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello everyone,
 
I just got Turbo C 2.0, so I'm selling my copy of Mark Williams C.
I also have a few other programs that I don't use much anymore.  Prices
include shipping via UPS surface:
 
MWC v. 3.0.2 C compiler         $50 OBO
        Includes a Unix like shell with utils like make, egrep, touch, etc.
        Manual has great GEM documentation
 
TDI Modula 2 compiler           $20 OBO
        I have had this since 1987, but it has always worked well and
        appears solid.  GEM libraries, 200 page manual.
 
PC Ditto 1                      $20 OBO
 
OmniRes Color monitor emulator  $10 OBO
        Run color software on your mono monitor.  Slows the screen down
        a bit.
 
GFA Draft Plus                  $15 OBO
        I'm used to using Autocad on Suns, so maybe that's why this
        seemed intolerably slow, clumsy, and ugly to me.  But some people
        seem to use it quite happily.
 
GFA Mastercad 3D                $15
        3 dimensional drawing program.  Haven't used it enough to comment
        on it.
 
All programs come with the original documentation except Omnires,
which has instructions in a Readme file.
 
Jim
 
 
 
--
__  __               |    |
 \  / __  __  __  __ | __ |__  __  __  __      Jim Yegerlehner
  \/ |--'|  ||--'|   ||--'|  ||  ||--'|        1132 Hawkins Graduate House
   | `-- `--|`-- |   |`-- |  ||  |`-- |        W. Lafayette  IN 47906
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 17:42:27 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!think.com!rpi!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!har
 ryk@arizona.edu (Harry Karayiannis)
Subject: Source-level debuggers for C?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov7.181621.20688@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us
 (Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>I've kept TOS 1.2 (or 1.02 according to taste) on my Mega all this time
>because I like the combination of db (the Mark Williams Co. debugger) and
>csd (the source-level debugger from the same folks).  With the upcoming
>availability of TOS 2.06 upgrades, I'm afraid it's going to be time to move
>on to a new C compiler.  But having a source-level debugger available is
>now a "settled expectation" for me.  The situation is reinforced by using
>Codeview on the PC (some of the most inadequate documentation ever, but a
>debugger that works at BOTH source and executable levels).
>                         My Question:
>What C compilers that are still supported have source-level debuggers
>available?  Do any of them also work at executable level?  Anyone have
>strong feelings about their quality?
>                                    Steve       saj@chinet.chi.il.us
 
 
        Ok, my friend Alex has Laser C which comes with a fantastic
source-assembly level debugger, it's called ldb I think....personally
I don't like the compiler itself but it is worth it to buy the whole
package JUST for the debugger
 
        I hear that Turbo C version 2.00 comes with an excellent source level
debugger, but that's all I know (ahh..the docs are in german I think).
 
 
=============================================================================
Author of ATZENTA2         Harry Karayiannis           ________E-Mail________
                    15 N.Beacon, #316   Boston Univ.  |INTERnet:
**  || ATARI   **   Allston, MA 02134   Computer Sc.  | harryk@bucsf.bu.edu
** /||\ MegaST **   U.S.A.                            |BITnet:
======================================================| cscrzcc@buacca.bu.edu
                                                       ----------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 05:27:51 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pipe!boyd@a
 rizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <JGJ.91Nov8110130@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com>, jgj@ssd.csd.harris.com
 (Jeff Jackson) writes:
>
>>I still want the source to this guy
>
>Unless I am confused, "less" is port of GNU.  GNU stuff is available
>on pre.ai.mit.edu.
>
 
True, but the TOS port of less stems from a vastly hacked version of that
source (actually a much older version).  I would rather not duplicate
this effort, although it looks like I might have to.  I think I will start
out with the MINT port (given that the TOS source does not show up).
 
--
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
             Mickey R. Boyd          |  "Come to your senses professor
          FSU Computer Science       |     Fernberg.  You did not transcend
        Technical Support Group      |     the time-space continuum.  You
       email:  boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu    |     got drunk in a topless bar."
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 05:36:16 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pipe!boyd@a
 rizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov09.025431.10213@actrix.gen.nz>, Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz
 (Roger Sheppard) writes:
>
>Were did you get this info from, I have the latest Neodesk but can't
>find how to use any  alt, file viewer, I have looked through the Manuals
>mant times..Please can you help..
>
>The only way posible to me is as a install application, but this is no
>good as there are to many text file extentions..
>
 
On page 69 of my Neodesk 3 manual.  Drop down menu "options", menu entry
"Set Preferences", button "paths", text entry dialog "alternate text file
viewer reader".  This is for Neodesk 3.01 and above.  I don't remember if
this was an option in previous versions.
 
--
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
             Mickey R. Boyd          |  "Come to your senses professor
          FSU Computer Science       |     Fernberg.  You did not transcend
        Technical Support Group      |     the time-space continuum.  You
       email:  boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu    |     got drunk in a topless bar."
    ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 18:18:15 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!rpi!news-ser
 ver.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!julian!uwovax.uwo.ca!7103_2622@
 arizona.edu (Eric Smith)
Subject: using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov10.002751.27835@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, boyd@pipe.cs.fsu.edu
 (Mickey Boyd) writes:
>>Unless I am confused, "less" is port of GNU.  GNU stuff is available
>>on pre.ai.mit.edu.
> True, but the TOS port of less stems from a vastly hacked version of that
> source (actually a much older version).  I would rather not duplicate
> this effort, although it looks like I might have to.  I think I will start
> out with the MINT port (given that the TOS source does not show up).
 
Have you actually tried the MiNT version of less under TOS? I can't imagine
anything particularly MiNT specific that less would have to do, so it
probably works. (Programs compiled with the MiNT library will run under TOS
unless they use some MiNT specific features, e.g. they try to fork() or
use pipes).
 
For example, the BSD "more" that I compiled with the MiNT library works
fine under both TOS and MiNT.
--
Eric R. Smith                     email:
Dept. of Mathematics            eric.smith@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario   7103_2622@uwovax.bitnet
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Nov 91 00:39:13 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
 .ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!al885@arizona.edu
 (Gerard Pinzone)
Subject: WD1772 IC
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In a previous article, jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu (Jeffrey M. Mayzurk) says:
 
>
>The floppy disk controller IC died in my trusty ST yesterday, so I am in
>desperate need of a replacement WD1772 IC.  If anyone knows where I can
>obtain one, please let me know.  This is urgent as my computer is crippled
>without it.  Thanks alot!
>
>Jeff Mayzurk
>jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu
>
 
Is there any way this chip could be "upgraded" to handle high density
disk drives?
 
I've seen high density mods for the ST, but there was always a catch...
--
   _______   ________   ________   "Small nose, loose girls, no nipples, (.|.)
  /   ___/  /  _____/  /  __   /   Iczer curls!"  -=-  Gerard Pinzone     ).(
 /   ___/  /  /____   /  __   /          gpinzone@george.poly.edu        ( v )
/______/  /_______/  /__/ /__/       Join the ECA Wehrmacht! Kill CM!     \|/
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 00:40:00 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!corvette.utdallas.edu!tamsun!z
 eus.tamu.edu!jmm2948@arizona.edu (Jeffrey M. Mayzurk)
Subject: WD1772 IC
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Well, the floppy disk controller chip has died on my old faithful ST, and I am
in desperate need of a replacement IC, WD1772.  Does anyone know where I can
obtain one?  This fairly urgent, as my computer is crippled right now and
I need it fixed ASAP.  If anyone can help, please e-mail.
 
THanks a lot..
 
Jeff Mayzurk
 
jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
