Info-Atari16 Digest         Tue, 30 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 415
 
Today's Topics:
A Decent Debugger Interface (was Re: An idea for DC Software? (wish list))
                      ANS:  Reset-Proof Ramdisk
                          ANS:  Spectre GCR
                       Custom floppy formatting
                                Help!
Help wanted: Dead 520st with EZRAM II upgrad, double fault halt detected
                      Lattice C -- Single Pass?
                               LZH Path
                             LZH Program
                Plea for help <-- dead 1040! (2 msgs)
                             Spectre GCR
                   ST/STE sales - numbers required.
                 TT memory (was allocation) (2 msgs)
                   what I think about GEM (2 msgs)
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 22:10:26 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news
 .bbn.com!mips2!sprite!jtsillas@arizona.edu (James Tsillas)
Subject: A Decent Debugger Interface (was Re: An idea for DC Software? (wish
 list))
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
If you are using motif 1.1, try mxgdb which is a motif translation of
xxgdb. I recently posted it to alt.sources along with the first patch
which allows you to build on Unix SysV.3.2 and SunOS 4.x. You will need
GNU's gdb.
 
-Jim.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 JUL 91 18:41:28 CDT
From: Z4648252 <Z4648252%SFAUSTIN.bitnet@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject: ANS:  Reset-Proof Ramdisk
To: <INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
 
    In regards to the talked about topic:  reset ramdisks, I'd like
to recommend Double Click's DC RamIt.  Not only does it have a "reset"
proof feature, but it is amazingly fast for program loads and execution
and is set up like an actual floppy.  It is quite painless to use with a
variety of setup options, not to mention the excellent support from
DoubleClick.
    DC RamIt is part of DC Utilities 2.0, a great bargain in the sheer
amount and quality of programs included with the package.
 
Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> |>Atari ST Users of East Texas<|
       Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 JUL 91 18:55:08 CDT
From: Z4648252 <Z4648252%SFAUSTIN.bitnet@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject: ANS:  Spectre GCR
To: <INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
 
    David Butler made some excellent recommendations on how to set Spectre
up and what programs to use.
    One correction needs to be made, though, his statement about System 6.0.5
and TrueType.  System 6.0.5 and TrueType work perfectly together.  Make sure
you get the total TrueType package which includes the TrueType INIT.  This
INIT is required for TrueType operation if System 7.0 is not used.  ATM
works perfectly, as he said, however, I have moved away from it mainly due
to the fact that so many new TrueType fonts are coming out.  Note that
the System 7.0 installation kit includes TrueType fonts.  Even though
Spectre is not 7.0 ready, these fonts can be used.  Also, be aware that
the new Font DA mover is required for working with TrueType fonts.  I think
System 6.0.7 includes the newest Font DA mover.  If not, it is included
with System 7.0.
    ResEdit, as David says, is also highly recommended but is not for
novices.  It is a very easy program to use for modification of resources.
Because of the ability to modify the very heart of a program, this program
can be quite dangerous if you are not used to such meddling.  For those of
us who are, it is a royal blast to use!
    System 6.0.7 works with Spectre, but will not give sound ability for
everything, such as in some applications or games for the Spectre since
Apple changed the sound manager in System 6.0.7.  There is no need to
use System 6.0.7.  System 6.0.5 is the recommended system software for
the current release of Spectre GCR 3.0.  Again, be aware that TrueType
works perfectly with 6.0.5 but you have to have the TrueType INIT installed.
 
Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> |>Atari ST Users of East Texas<|
       Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 18:32:17 GMT
From: beguine!bbs.oit.unc.edu@mcnc.org (Dan Halevy)
Subject: Custom floppy formatting
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Is there a program available that will allow a standard DSDD ST drive to
read/analyse a custom format (let's say one of the many CP/M disk formats)
and then either initialize other disks with the same format, or just read/write
to this disk?
 
I already know about a shareware program called DISKMECH, but it's use has
been very limited, and its ability to duplicate a custom-formatted disk is
questionable.
 
Thanks,
 
Dan
 
dan%paradox.psych.columbia.edu@columbia.edu
 
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 128.109.157.30
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 31 Jul 91 04:53:24 GMT
From:
 arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!cb.ecn.pu
 rdue.edu!whitehe@arizona.edu (Drew D Whitehead)
Subject: Help!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello.  I need some help.  With my purchase of the Calamus Font Editor, I have
discovered that I need more than 6 Accessories.  Is there any programs out
there that will allow you do add more than 6?  If the people at ISD had made
the thing a PROGRAM, it would be a lot easier.
 
Thanks for your help
 
Drew
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 29 Jul 91 18:44:01 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!ucivax!dhw68k!zardoz.cpd.com
 !infotec!lee@arizona.edu (Lee Van Dyke)
Subject: Help wanted: Dead 520st with EZRAM II upgrad, double fault halt
 detected
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I have a dead 520st that had been upgraded with an EZRAM II board, it worked
 fine until I
moved the unit. The processor is halted, all socketed chips have been reseated.
 Any one
have similar problems?
 
 
 
--
Lee Van Dyke              UUCP: ...sun!sunkist!infotec!lee
Infotec                                      or
Costa Mesa, CA                  ...zardoz!infotec!lee
(714) 241-8254
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 31 Jul 91 01:16:06 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura@ar
 izona.edu (Jim Omura)
Subject: Lattice C -- Single Pass?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <3004@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>>In article <040103.22763@timbuk.cray.com> marc@sequoia.cray.com
>>(Marc Bouron) writes:
>>>I also write my C programs with main() at the
>>>`top', but I also religiously declare all the functions I'm going to use.
>
>and jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes:
>>     It looks like it's a habit I'm going to have to get into.
>
>I can't address the issue of whether the Lattice compiler really requires
>this, because I don't know what version you have and I can't try it, but if
 
     For the record, I'm using Lattice C version 5.06.02, with the
first edition (Mar. 1990) manuals.  As I understand it, the "current
off-the-shelf version" is this compiler, but with the new second
edition manuals.  I will be calling Goldleaf shortly to see if I
can get the new manuals.
 
>it does, it's wrong.  My ANSI C spec (admittedly a draft from 10/86) in
>Section 3.3.2.2 (Function Calls) states:
>
>       "If no declaration is in scope for an identifier used as the first
>expression in a function call [that is, the function to be called], the
>identifier is implicitly declared exactly as if, in the innermost block
>containing the function call, the declaration
>
>       extern int identifier();
>
>appeared."
>
>Thus, the behavior is not "implementation defined" but very specifically
>defined by the spec.
>
 
     I think it's worth it for me to go over what I think is the
situation for people thinking about buying a Lattice C compiler.
 
     First, the compiler has a dizzing array of switching combinations.
I won't bother trying to summarize them all, but the relevant switches
are as follows:
 
-c  This switch takes 16 different modifying "subswitches".  When
    this switch is NOT used, "[T]he compiler defaults to compatibility
with previous releases with many ANSI C language features ... "  Note
that the default case is NOT full ANSI compatibility mode.
 
     Now, for full ANSI compatibility you use "-ca".  Furthermore
"-caf" will give full ANSI compatibility and make function prototypes
necessary in ALL cases.  If you want to make function prototypes
necessary, but WITHOUT full ANSI compatibility, then you can use "-cf".
 
     But there are more dialect variations:  "-cl" " ... allows a
pre-ANSI language dialect."  What are the characteristics of this
dialect?  It's not entirely clear, but I would presume that it refers
to Lattice 3.04 which is covered somewhat in Appendix G in the manual.
But I have NOT found any clear statement to this effect.  The appendix
also refers to HiSoft C, so there's some reason to doubt this.
 
     And also there's "-co" which " ... [p]rovides a compatibility
mode to use the pre-ANSI style preprocessor found in previous releases
of the compiler.  The most important aspect of this occurs in
substitution of symbols within quoted strings."
 
-j  "This option allows control over the error messages reported by
    the compiler. . . ."
 
     Ok, so that's an overview of the problem area I've been concerned
with.  I've tried a *lot* of variations and yet have not covered all
the possibilities, but I think I have a feeling for what's going on.
 
     IF you make function prototypes completely necessary, in effect
there isn't any problem.  You simply have to have function prototypes
everywhere and if you have them, you get no warnings or error reports.
 
     IF NOT, then IF you have the functions in "bottom up order", all
in the same source code, then again there's no problem.  You won't
get any warnings or errors (ok, assuming everything else is right :-).
 
     But if you use a different function definition order, you will
get a WARNING (non-fatal) that the compiler is presuming an "int" is
to be passed.  Now, that's not in itself terrible, but what I'm used
to in other compilers is that such warnings only occur where there's
reason to doubt the situation.  I would expect to be able to get rid
of the warnings by properly declaring type "int" returns and forcing
dummy values to be returned, or alternatively, by specific casting
of functions as they are used.  NEITHER of these approaches will stop
the Lattice C compiler from issueing these clearly unnecessary warning.
Thus they are clutter and make it difficult to isolate important warning.
 
     There are 2 methods to get rid of the warnings.  First is to
use the "-j" switch to stop *all* warnings of this type.  That's
not really great because you might want these warnings in appropriate
cases.  The other alternative is to make your function declarations.
 
     So what it boils down to is that despite all those variations
of switching, you might as well just stick in function prototypes
all over the place anyway.  But there's really nothing *wrong* with
the compiler per se.  At least not in regard to this problem.
 
 
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 14:57:03 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: LZH Path
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
How does one LZH a Folder that is say 3 deep, that also contains
folders, but not to include paths of the 3 folders in the archive.
 
Sample Path..C:\path1\path2\main\auto\boot.prg
                                \folder\files.etc
                                \program.prg
 
So all the Files and Folders that in Main must be in the
Archive but not \path1\path2\main...
 
The only way that I have found so far is to copy the contents of
the main folder to disk, then LZH the disk.
 
Note: the LZH must include folders
 
Using LZH 1.3 or LZH1321/200A etc..
 
 
 
--
***  Roger W. Sheppard        *    Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd          *  *   At least I don't Flicker, not     ***
***  Kapiti New Zealand..    *     like a dying light globe. !       ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 18:23:00 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!juemar@arizona.edu
 (Julian Tyrone Bean)
Subject: LZH Program
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hi,
        What de-archiver do I need to restore .lzh files.  I looked in some places, but
 was unable to decide which one was needed.
 
 
                                Julian
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 31 Jul 91 02:46:34 GMT
From: ogicse!orstcs!prism!thaanuj@uunet.uu.net (John Thaanum)
Subject: Plea for help <-- dead 1040!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Jul25.161127.14083@disk.uucp> unknown@disk.uucp (unknown)
 writes:
>Well, in my old user group (WACE) we had a cure for that..
>Lift the computer about three inches off the table, and drop it!
>I know this sounds drastic, but it works..  The condition you described is
 usually due to some of the chips inside being loose, and dropping the computer
 is like droping a hammer on its handle to push the head on tighter..
>(NOTE:  Although this works, don't hold me responsible if your St winds up in
 several small and inconvenient peices :)   )
>
It seems that physical abuse has been an effective form of therapy for sick
Ataris for years.  My first exposure to an Atari was my friends 800 right
about 10 years ago.  The BASIC cartridge would lock up, and he'd open the
little door over the cartridge slot.  And then WHAM!! he'd slap his fist down
on the cart as hard as he could.  Then it would function fine for the rest of
 the day.
 
There is something to be said for machines that can survive such treatment...
 
>--
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>Shawn Beltz              :) :) :)   The opinions expressed in this message are
>unknown@disk.UUCP                   the opinions expressed in this message are
>uunet!ukma!corpane!disk!unknown     the opinions expressed in this message....
 
John Thaanum            thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 31 Jul 91 03:30:29 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!marshall@uunet.uu.net
 (Marshall Harris (G.M.))
Subject: Plea for help <-- dead 1040!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In <1991Jul31.024634.20034@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu (John
 Thaanum) writes:
 
>In article <1991Jul25.161127.14083@disk.uucp> unknown@disk.uucp (unknown)
 writes:
>>Well, in my old user group (WACE) we had a cure for that..
>>Lift the computer about three inches off the table, and drop it!
>>.....
>It seems that physical abuse has been an effective form of therapy for sick
>Ataris for years.  My first exposure to an Atari was my friends 800 right
>There is something to be said for machines that can survive such treatment...
 
>>-...
Years ago I was a Radar mechanic in the RAF. The standard way to get a radar
set working again was to kick it hard with one's steel-toed marching boots.
Not much progress over the years!
--
  _-_|\        marshall@cs.uq.oz.au (Marshall Harris)|ph:+61 7 365 2908
 /     B <--+  Department of Computer Science        :fx:+61 7 365 1999
 \_.-._/    |  University of Queensland, St.Lucia
      v     +--Brisbane, Queensland, 4072 AUSTRALIA (The Sub-Tropics)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 23:15:31 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!psinntp!rodan.acs.syr.edu!ggreenbe@arizona
 .edu (Gerald Greenberg)
Subject: Spectre GCR
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Jul29.142017.8877@sae.com> malay@sae.com (Bob Malay) writes:
>Hey,
>I just got a brand new GCR w/ROMS and I was wondering if anybody out there
>can give me a list of Mac goodies that I should be on the look out for,
>particulary, version numbers. Like what version of System/Finder is the
>definitive one to use?
>
>Bob Malay
OK, Bob, I was going to write you personally, but I think this
is valid for all Spectre users: Access PC.  This is a program
from Insignia Solutions that lets you access msdos (and hence,
ST) disks while in Mac mode!  No need to transfer files...just
work on your ST or msdos disk while in Mac mode.  I just
discovered this myself recently and find it to work
fantastically.  The program costs about $60-$65 mail order.
The one problem (not really a problem, but an
inconvenience) is that while Access PC can access MSDOS hard
drives and syquest drives on a 'real' Mac, it cannot do this
under Spectre, since Spectre does not recognize scsi!  ***Why
can't this be faked out somehow for this use?***  Wouldn't it
be great to use your ST syquest cartridge while in Spectre?
Anyway, I still find it a very useful program just accessing
my ST/MSDOS floppies.
I also would recommend MacTools Deluxe.  Good disk recovery
program AND you can use the backup, once you format your hard
disks from within Mac mode.  Disinfectant from mac archives is
a good anti-virus program.  WriteNow is a good wordprocessor,
but I find Word4 more powerful for certain things, and Word
still is quite acceptibly fast...WordPerfect 2, however, seems
to have some problems (as you may have seen in my earlier
posts).  You're going to need Stuffit, probably, if you want
to get software from ftp sites.
That's about all I can think of now.  Maybe we can get Dave
Small to cook up something for AcessPC?
(Bob...I hope to get back to you with the monitor info...)
--Gerry
ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 31 Jul 91 01:02:43 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!megadata!swanee@uunet.uu.net
 (Geoff Swan)
Subject: ST/STE sales - numbers required.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello all,
          Does anybody have official figures of the number of Atari
ST/STE's sold in each country? In particular I'm interested in sale
figures for UK, Germany, Holland, France, Australia and the US. Any
others would also be appreciated.
                          Many thanking-you's in advance,
                                                Geoff Swan.
                                      (swanee@megadata.oz)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 13:24:03 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!prle!prles2!cst2!meulenbr@uunet.uu.net (Frans
 Meulenbroeks)
Subject: TT memory (was allocation)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
This is in reply to which is better STe or TT.
Allen Pratt mentions that the TT can use VME cards. I think few people
who buy a TT will care. At least I won't.
As far as memory concerns. Yes you can have more memory in the TT, but
it will cost some $$.
The 68882 is definitely a benefit if you do a lot of math work.
For graphics programs/text processing/compiling/program development
there is no gain in it.
Also don't overestimate the 32 Mhz 68030 (I did; the TT was not as fast
as I expected it to be). The memory subsystem still runs at 16 Mhz, not
32, and that is a major bottleneck.
The TT when running in ST ram performs about 3 times as fast as a 1040.
In TT ram the gain is about 4.6 (figures based
on dhrystone runs under MINIX; same binary, so no use is made of the
special 030 specific instructions; both caches on and in burst fill
mode)
 
ST games typically don't run on the TT, or are too fast to play.
It seems that most utilites are not that much of a problem.
Furthermore the TOS 3.05 desktop is definitely impressive.
 
If you have to choose between an STe or TT definitely look at the
use you are going to make of it, the amount of money you can afford etc.
I strongly recommend buying the 6MB or 8MB models which have TT ram.
The price/performance ration drops by having TT ram.
--
Frans Meulenbroeks        (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl)
        Philips Research Laboratories
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 20:14:56 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona.
 edu (Gregory Carter)
Subject: TT memory (was allocation)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <meulenbr.680880243@cst2> meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl (Frans
 Meulenbroeks) writes:
>This is in reply to which is better STe or TT.
>Allen Pratt mentions that the TT can use VME cards. I think few people
>who buy a TT will care. At least I won't.
>As far as memory concerns. Yes you can have more memory in the TT, but
>it will cost some $$.
>The 68882 is definitely a benefit if you do a lot of math work.
>For graphics programs/text processing/compiling/program development
>there is no gain in it.
>Also don't overestimate the 32 Mhz 68030 (I did; the TT was not as fast
>as I expected it to be). The memory subsystem still runs at 16 Mhz, not
>32, and that is a major bottleneck.
>The TT when running in ST ram performs about 3 times as fast as a 1040.
>In TT ram the gain is about 4.6 (figures based
>on dhrystone runs under MINIX; same binary, so no use is made of the
>special 030 specific instructions; both caches on and in burst fill
>mode)
>
>ST games typically don't run on the TT, or are too fast to play.
>It seems that most utilites are not that much of a problem.
>Furthermore the TOS 3.05 desktop is definitely impressive.
>
>If you have to choose between an STe or TT definitely look at the
>use you are going to make of it, the amount of money you can afford etc.
>I strongly recommend buying the 6MB or 8MB models which have TT ram.
>The price/performance ration drops by having TT ram.
>--
>Frans Meulenbroeks        (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl)
>       Philips Research Laboratories
 
Good lord people, if your going to spend 3 G's on a home computer why
not get one that is REALLY AWESOME and has a 040 in it?
 
You guessed it, NeXT!  You get a nice UNIX, nice apps, AWESOME DISPLAY,
AWESOME memory, VIRTUAL MEMORY TO BOOT TOO!!!
 
I wouldn't consider a TT unless you could get it at developers prices,
as REGULAR RETAIL price.
 
TT is just not that great, hardware wise.  Although if you have never had
anything else, and just upgraded from a ST...then I suppose it would be
great.
 
It would be a great computer if the price was realistic, considering what
you get.
 
But it just isn't.
 
--Gregory
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 28 Jul 91 23:08:00 GMT
From:
 math.fu-berlin.de!fub!dobag.in-berlin.de!nicedel!artcom0!hb.maus.de!m.maus.de!M
 artin_Gaeckler@uunet.uu.net (Martin Gaeckler)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
>WINDOWS looks great but, compared to GEM or the Mac OS, it is quite clumsy.
>If you want to copy a file, you have to run the File Manager, find the file
>you want to copy and then TYPE out the destination INCLUDING pathways! Yikes,
 
No, that's not right. You may drag the file(s) you want to copy to that win-
dow where you want to move the file(s). If you hold the Control-Key while you
drag the files they wille be copied (not moved).
 
regards Martin from bavaria
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 30 Jul 91 22:55:45 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!worl
 d!azog@arizona.edu (azog-thoth)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <11697@m.maus.de> Martin_Gaeckler@m.maus.de (Martin Gaeckler) writes:
>
>>WINDOWS looks great but, compared to GEM or the Mac OS, it is quite clumsy.
>>If you want to copy a file, you have to run the File Manager, find the file
>>you want to copy and then TYPE out the destination INCLUDING pathways! Yikes,
>
>No, that's not right. You may drag the file(s) you want to copy to that win-
>dow where you want to move the file(s). If you hold the Control-Key while you
>drag the files they wille be copied (not moved).
>
>regards Martin from bavaria
 
Yea, but even so, its still rather clumsy. Think about the work needed to
copy a file from your floppy to the hard drive. The above is needed, because
(usually), you cant open a window onto the floppy. You could create a
folder called Floppy, and use Preferences to set path to A:, but thats
still awfully clumsy. And why press a keyboard key when using a mouse?
Isnt that the point of a GUI? Windows may be prettier than GEM, but
its _real_ easy to get things done, IMHO
 
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| Billy D'Augustine         | I beg to differ!                              |
| azog@world.std.com        |                -- Prong --                    |
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
