Info-Atari16 Digest         Wed, 21 Aug 91       Volume 91 : Issue 447
 
Today's Topics:
                            Atari CD-ROM?
                        Blitter for Atari STFM
                               Damocles
                           DC (formatter?)
                         Ethernet for the ST
                        Generic shell for ttp?
                          OVERSCAN PROBLEMS
                             Packing GNU
                      Phasar for other platforms
                 Recommendations for PC-DOS emulator
  Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR) (2 msgs)
                 ST User mag. (was Re: Atari CD-ROM?)
                             TeX troubles
                         Uniterm source code
                   what I think about GEM (2 msgs)
                        Word Up? Word Perfect?
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 08:21:31 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Atari CD-ROM?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <A5717@hh.maus.de> Laurenz_Pruessner@hh.maus.de (Laurenz Pruessner)
writes:
>Neil Forsyth (ME!) neil%cs.hw.ac.uk @ SUB wrote on 13.08.91 09:06
>>If some third party developers have done this then I would not consider it an
>>official upgrade. Official upgrades come from Atari with Atari documentation
>>and do not get removed when you send your machine to Atari for repair.
>>Any idea about what the German develpoers did to make it work?
>
>I am one of the developers, I did the software-modifications.
 
I'm impressed.
 
>YES, the modified TOS 2.05 runs fine on any ST and YES, TOS is copyrighted by
>Atari. We should instantly stop talking about a project that is not yet
>finished. We're looking forward to meeting Atari on the Atari Fair in
>Dusseldorf and we'll have lots of things to discuss that should not be
>discussed in the public before.
 
Even if Atari Gmbh say "Hey that's neat. We'll take it" and Germany is flooded
with lots of happy new TOS 2.x users that does not necessarily mean Atari US
will welcome it. In fact I can see them saying that it is up to them to modify
TOS not you and unless they do so I doubt they will support it. If you get
Atari US on your side then it's in the bag.
 
>Maybe we can say more about all of this in a week.
 
Please do! I find the possibility of fitting TOS 2.x in my '86 ST exciting.
Non hardware orientated people though may be less enthusiastic.
 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
!                                                                            !
! Neil Forsyth                      JANET:  neil@uk.ac.hw.cs                 !
! Dept. of Computer Science         ARPA:   neil@cs.hw.ac.uk                 !
! Heriot-Watt University            UUCP:   ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil          !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK           "That was never 5 minutes!"              !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 11:46:02 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!clarkson!CROVM3.vnet.ibm.com!MERWOOA@ari
 zona.edu
Subject: Blitter for Atari STFM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Does anybody have any schematics or other information regarding the fitting
of a blitter chip to an ATARI 520 STFM.  I have one of the first blitter
ROM machines with space on the mother board for the blitter chip.  I bought
a blitter chip from Best Electronics at a recent UK show along with a PLCC
socket.  Unfortunately I managed to mangle the socket and need to get another
from somewhere in the UK.  Is fitting the chip simply a matter of soldering
the socket and plugging in the blitter or are there other things that must be
done??
 
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Regards,
 
Adrian Merwood
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Aug 91 13:57:26 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!mantis!mathew@uunet.uu.net (Industrial Poet)
Subject: Damocles
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Has anyone out there bought the data disks for Damocles?
 
Are they any good?
 
 
mathew
[ Eagerly waiting for Mercenary III... ]
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 04:40:40 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed
 u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: DC (formatter?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
  Okay, so I've found out about Mystic Formatter, which essentially
was what I was looking for.  But being the average ST user, I am
never satisfied (oh no!).  So how about maybe as one of their programs
of the week make a NEW version, with a couple of changes.  Instead of
being an ACC, make it a TSR.  Why you ask?  Well an ACC can only be
used if your program has access to the drop-down Accessory menu.
Therefore you can't use it from within say a TOS program (or any
program GEM or not that doesn't let you see the accessories).
Also, instead of a standard hot-key, allow the user to choose
his/her OWN hot-key combination (therefore allowing more compatibility
with programs that may use a similar key-press).
  And finally, maybe include an option for those lucky souls who
have a 1.44meg drive (whoever modified their system to handle
these drives).
 
  So what do you think?  Sounds reasonable?  (even coming from me :-)
 
                                        Robert Anisko
                                        rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
 
Side note:  reason I did not realize at first that Mystic Formatter
was a background formatter:  the copy I got had NO DOCS, and when
I loaded it originally, it just looked like any other formatter,
so I paid no attention originally to it.  Oh well, all those
wasted hours of foratting...
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 91 16:09 EDT
From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV
Subject: Ethernet for the ST
To: Info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
    I was interested to see the description of the Riebl cards for Ethernet.
I was a little perturbed to learn the price (upwards of $US 500) and that the
software was so expensive.  These prices put the products out of reach for
US users, who have much cheaper alternatives available for the Mac and DOS
platforms.
 
    I have seen advertisements for SCSI Ethernet adapters for Mac Plusses.
It seemed to me that these were pretty cheap (around $US 300?).  How hard
would it be to adapt the NCSA telnet software packages to drive these devices
from an Atari ST?  Would ICD host adapters support these gadgets?  Might it not
be possible to build the session handling (Telnet) facilities into a program
like STalker, which is capable of running in the backgound?
 
    Could the X-Windows client software that is available for the ST's be
adapted to use an Ethernet port?  If this were the case I think many university
labs could make use of ST's as terminals to UNIX or VMS hosts.  While an X
workstation based on the ST might not be wonderful, it might be very economical
indeed.
 
    It would also be interesting to hear what uses the Europeans make of the STs
that they run on Ethernet.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 02:59:54 GMT
From: CIE.UOREGON.EDU!jamesl@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (James Lynn)
Subject: Generic shell for ttp?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
A couple days ago I was looking around for a word count program, and found
a program called "wc.ttp," which counts words and lines in an ASCII file
just like the unix "wc." Anyway, when I use this program, it counts the words
and such and flashes them onto the screen. Unfortunately, it goes back to
desktop right afterwards, leaving me with less than 1/4 of a second to read
them. Sorry, but I can't read that fast. There appears to be no provision
for making it hold the info on screen like arc.ttp does, at least not that I
can find. Obviously it's meant to be used with a shell program, like MT
C-Shell, which I do not have and cannot afford.
 
Does anybody know of a small, simple shell program I could use with this
thing? All it really needs to do is let me use wc.ttp and hold the results
on the screen until I hit a key, so I have time to read them. I'd like to
keep it simple, not get a whole big program to replace the desktop that I have
to learn how to use. I suspect such a thing would not be that hard to
program, but I do not know how.
 
Could somebody point me to such a program, say, on Terminator? I'd really
appreciate it.
 
Thanks!
 
James Charles Lynn
------------------
jamesl@cie.uoregon.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 14:23:33 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.ac
 s.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David H Butler)
Subject: OVERSCAN PROBLEMS
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I just recently got a question about an Overscan problem addressed to me from
"Thomas". However, I lost the file before I could reply. Thomas (and whoever
else needs to know): I got the 60Hz version of the Overscan driver direct off
of GEnie. The file name is simply "OVERSCAN.ARC". With Z-modem it only takes
about 15 minutes I think...
 
Good luck,
 
       || || || - David Butler           (dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
       || || ||
       || || ||     H  H    RRRR                   [ High Resolution DTP    ]
      ||  ||  ||    HHHH    R   R                  [ 1996 Summit St. Apt. B ]
     ||   ||   ||   H  High RRRR                   [ Columbus, Ohio 43201   ]
   |||    ||    |||         R   Resolution         [ voice: (614)-297-7967  ]
 ||||     ||     ||||       R    R                 [ BUSINESS CALLS ONLY    ]
                                 - Desktop Publishing
 
-[ For Free ST consulting  ]-         -(Just a little plug for my company)-
-[ the Columbus Ohio area  ]-
-[ call Academic Computing ]-
-[ Services, 9am - 5pm     ]-
-[ Monday - Friday at:     ]-
-[ (614)-292-2919          ]-
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:43:37 BST
From: Dave Wade <DAVEW%D.SSS.CO.UK@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Packing GNU
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I have tried and given up. The small ones will compress a little but
not enough to get everything on one disk. Currently when I am forced
to use GNU I use the following set up.<only have 2 floppies>
 
1) Boot disk with GULAM on.
2) Compiler disk with GCC + Prepass + compiler proper + assembler
3) Loader disk with GCC + loader
4) Work disk in drive B with my sources + system .h files.
 
Of course then you have to do
  GCC -C file.c
<swap disk>
GCC file.o
 
Appart from buying a hard disk <and the cheapest I have seen in the
UK was 299 pounds for 40 meg (about 450 us dollars I think)
<i.e. about twice the price of the PC equivalent, but yes I know why.>
has any body any suggestions. For now I just avoid GNU except where I
am working with ANSI 'C' from somewhere else, and use SOZOBON which
all fits on one disk.
 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| VM Sysprogs do it virtually all of the time !!!!!          |
| Reply To:-                                                 |
|   Janet:- DAVEW@UK.CO.SSS.D                                |
|   Bitnet:-DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK (Also most places outside UK)  |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 91 16:10 EDT
From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV
Subject: Phasar for other platforms
To: Info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
To Steve La;
 
    I bought a copy of Phasar for the IBM for my brother-in-law.  I
purchased it directly from Marksman Technology. The price was around $80 or so,
which makes Phasar cheaper than most of the alternatives. I understand that it
 is also
available for the Amiga Line.  You might try calling Antic Publishing in
San Francisco to get a line on the products or on Marksman Technology (I would
have to dig pretty hard, as my correspondence with Tom Marks is pretty old).
 
    Some people on the DOS platforms swear by Dollars and Sense, which was not
successful on the ST line because of a badly done GEM port.  I personally feel
that the overall design of Phasar is superior, although some GEM snobs turn
up their noses at its user interface.
 
     Techno of Berlin, who bills himself as a hardcore ST user, obviously does
not understand the meaning of the word "flame".  Steve La was not flaming when
 he
asked his perfectly legitimate question.  Steve at least has the decency to
identify himself, which is more than can be said for Techno.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 00:10:41 GMT
From: ads.com!pdel@decwrl.dec.com (Peter Delevoryas)
Subject: Recommendations for PC-DOS emulator
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I'm thinking about getting a PC imitator for my STe. I know there
are a couple software versions, and also Supercharger.
 
The question is, should I fork over the big bucks for a Supercharger,
or can I be happy with one of the software-only hacks?
 
Also, wasn't there going to be something coming out, either by Talon,
or their competition, that would be really cool?
 
Lastly, can I get the same performance by getting a used 286? It seems
like anything over $500 wouldn't be worth it in that case. Or?
 
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who actually uses one of the above,
and could tell me how they compare to a real PC.
 
Thanks, Peter D.
 
--
 
 login name:   L1-A
 In real life: Peter Delevoryas
 In any other life: a cheap imitation
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 04:30:21 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed
 u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug19.145212.18256@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David H Butler) writes:
>I agree with that. I would rather see an in-business GCR producing company,
>than a company that makes a great 256K emulator and then gets sued out of
>business. However, if he follows the same principles as before he should be OK
>from what I've heard from legal-type friends. As long as he does not actually
>sell the ROM's himself with the emulator then it would be very difficult to
>take legal action (note: I may not know what I'm talking about here, I'm, just
>repeating what I've heard from others...).
 
  Well, considering that Dave Small could always LICENSE the new
chips off of this new company (assuming they won't rob people
he same amount that Apple does) then Dave could even include the
chips along with the system!  Wouldn't that be cool?
 
                                        Robert Anisko
                                        rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 09:59:15 GMT
From: monsoon.Berkeley.EDU!kawakami@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami)
Subject: Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
If dsmall uses the NuTek ROMS it should be easier for him to support them
than the current scheme.  Why?
 
1. NuTek will be working to reconcile incompatibilities between their ROMS
   and the Apple System and Finder software.  Currently, dsmall is doing
   this work by himself.
 
2. NuTek will be selling their ROMS to 3rd party clone makers, presumably
   to increase their market share thus forcing programmers to make their
   code compatible with NuTek ROMS.  To sell the ROMS, NuTek must either
   strictly regulate the hardware they will plug into, ala PC clones, or
   document how to write drivers for varied hardware platforms.  I tend
   to lean toward the second (though I know nothing about the NuTek design)
   because it would allow the development of plug in boards for IBM PCs
   that would give them Mac compatibility as well.  (Imagine a 486 + 68030
   running Unix with DesqView windows for Windows and Mac A/UX with sub
   windows for Mac applications.  And another DesqView window for Tetris!)
 
3. In theory, a lot of the testing would fall into the hands of NuTek and
   dsmall would get to work on other projects.  I'd like to see a true Super-
   Drive adapter which would give me a floppy that spit out disks and write
   them at 1.44 meg too.  Considering that the 1.44 meg adapters cost so
   much a cheap alternative that would also write Mac disks would probably
   do OK.
 
 
John Kawakami                  kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu
                               ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 10:10:04 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Ale
 x.Valdez@arizona.edu (Alex Valdez)
Subject: ST User mag. (was Re: Atari CD-ROM?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug14.100048.7856@cged.co.uk> johnr@cged.co.uk (John Richards)
 writes:
>
> Subscribe to ST Applications, the magazine from the ST Club. It's by far
> the best "serious" ST magazine in the UK.
> --
>                                       John Richards
 
Details please! How does one get in touch with these people? Would
they accept subscription from the far end of the planet? If so, for
how much?
 
Ta.
--
================================Alex Valdez=============================
"Alas sais na naman, oras ng pagdidili-dili...
 Isaisip ang mabuti, ang masama'y iwaksi..."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 05:50:01 GMT
From: ogicse!orstcs!prism!thaanuj@uunet.uu.net (John Thaanum)
Subject: TeX troubles
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug20.105125.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu>
 davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes:
>In article <kb21hkINNgsn@iraun1.ira.uka.de>, S_DINGLER@iravcl.ira.uka.de
>(|S| Florian Dingler) writes:
>> If you got an 2 Meg machine, try dumping the formats yourself:
>>
>> You find the .TEX files in the archive INPUTS.LZH. For Plain TeX you'll need
>> PLAIN.TEX. Just type
>>
>> tex 'plain \dump' -i
>
>This won't work with the standard 3.1 release on atari.archive, since there
>is nothing called TEX.TTP.  Instead, you have INITEX.TTP and VIRTEX.TTP.  To
>build the various formats, the commands would be:
>
>for TeX:
>
>  initex 'plain \dump'
>
>for LaTeX:
>
>  initex 'lplain \dump'
>
>for SliTex:
>
>  initex 'splain \dump'
>
 
Well, I have 2.5 meg of ram, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
When I un-archive the texfiles at atari.archive, I don't find INITEX.TTP nor
VIRTEX.TTP.  I ftp'd /tex/tex31/texbin.lzh, and its main contents were
TEX.TTP and BIGTEX.TTP, among a few others.  Perhaps there was confusion
during the directory restructure at atari.archive.
 
>OR, if you don't have the necessary memory, I will look through my own archives
>and find the copy of the format file mentioned (which I really did get from
>the atari.archive server at one time!), and FTP it back so they'll be
>available for everyone.
>
>> (    {\em I like \TeX\ !}   )
>
>ditto
>
>--
>
>David Paschall-Zimbel          davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
 
I wish to thank everybody for all the helpful hints.  I will try them all
when I finish catching up on mail and news.
 
---
 
                                                        ** *** **
        John Thaanum                                    ** *** **
        thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu                       ** *** **
        thaanuj@mist.cs.orst.edu                        ** *** **
        at445@cleveland.freenet.edu                    *** *** ***
                                                      ***  ***  ***
        "Baseball, hotdogs,                         ****   ***   ****
         Atari ST's and Chevrolet!"                 **     ***     **
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 01:56:36 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!st
 11w@arizona.edu (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Uniterm source code
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Anyone know where I can get the code for Uniterm?
 
****************************************************************************
***           It's gnu and improved -- but it's still not unix!          ***
***                                                                      ***
***           Dennis Gray, Jr.           st11w@menudo.uh.edu             ***
***                                      st113@jetson.uh.edu             ***
***                                      dgray@sugar.hackercorp.com      ***
***                                      dennis@nuchat.sccsi.com         ***
****************************************************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 20 Aug 91 22:32:42 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu
 !connection!jerry@arizona.edu (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
azog@world.std.com (azog-thoth) writes:
>
>GEM: to copy from floppy to HD:
>
>Click on the hard drive icon, and open it up to the path. The open the
>floppy, and drag the icon from floppy to hard drive.
>
>Windows:
>
>Open the file manager. After it scans the whole hard drive, open drive
>a. Choose COPY under the menu FILE menu bar, and TYPE in the path
>
>Which is easier?
>
 
PLEASE get informed before you post.  It'll make you look a lot less foolish.
 
Windows:
 
Click on the file manager if it isn't already running (ah the benefits of
multitasking).  Open a directory window to the hard drive.  Do the same for
the floppy drive.  Drag the file from the floppy window to the hard drive
window.  Just like GEM.
 
GEM: try to do the same while you're running a program.
--
+-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | POLYGEN CORPORATION  | When I was young, I had to walk |
| Drummers do it... | Waltham, MA USA      | to school and back every day -- |
|    ... In rhythm! | (617) 890-2175       | 20 miles, uphill both ways.     |
+-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 09:53:30 GMT
From: van-bc!jonh!jhenders@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Henders)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
 
        I'm sorry folks, couldn't resist on htis one. Too much time
in news.groups lately, I guess.
 
 
In <1991Aug20.223242.11352@ctr.columbia.edu>, Jerry Shekhel writes:
 
>
>PLEASE get informed before you post.  It'll make you look a lot less
>foolish.
>
        < how Windows works like GEM deleted >
>
>GEM: try to do the same while you're running a program.
 
        You mean like you can with UIS, Maxifile, Harlekin, or one of
several p.d disk manager type desk accessories.
        PLEASE etc..
 
--
          John Henders                      jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
          Vancouver,B.C                     or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 21 Aug 91 00:26:23 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed
 u!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk@arizona.edu (Brian 'Rev P-K'
 Siano)
Subject: Word Up? Word Perfect?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
fsctc@csduts1.lerc.nasa.gov (Clarence T. Chang) writes:
 
> I am considering switching from First Word Plus to some other word processors
> on our TT.  Has anyone successfully run Word Perfect (WP) or Word Up (WUP) on
> this beast?  What are the respective merits and drawbacks?  My printer is a
> HP Deskjet Plus which can be used as a Laserjet II.  I also have access to
> other printers such as PS printers on the network.  What do you think of thes
> two packages?
>
> Clarence
 
        You might do well to check the sped of a PC emulator on your TT
first, because Word Perfect 5.1 for the PC is the best thing on the market.
 
 
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Brian Siano,                                Delaware Valley Skeptics
Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding
revpk@Cellar.UUCP                     "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
