Info-Atari16 Digest         Sat,  9 Nov 91       Volume 91 : Issue 584
 
Today's Topics:
                    "C" on the ST - Public Domain
                       A tale of two computers
                          ATARI ad. (2 msgs)
                            ATARI ST 4sale
                               B Gervin
                            Falcon on Ste?
                             GEM-Windows
                           GENIE emailexit
                    German => English translator?
                            hypertext help
                      MiNT 0.9 is now available
                    News programs for Atari 520 ST
              PD or shareware Fortran Compiler out there
                Performance (was: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386)
                                Stacy
                               ST Clubs
                 using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager
                          What's! happening?
 
Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest.  The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out.  Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU.
 
Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16.  Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.
 
If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 18:46:45 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!col!don@arizona.edu (Don
 Allison)
Subject: "C" on the ST - Public Domain
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In the interests of completeness, you might want to mention mjc (Mark Johnson's
C) as well.  :-)
 
Also, although a cursory inspection didn't find them at atari.archive, there
have been pascal and fortran to C converters posted in one of the comp.sources
groups (look for p2c and f2c).  These have been ported to non-Unix platforms
(eg MS-DOS) so I imagine they could be ported to the ST without too much
effort.  (Does anyone know of a port of these to the ST?  If not, would anyone
be interested in such a port?)
 
Don Allison
don@col.hp.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 23:15:50 GMT
From: psinntp!sgigate!odin!flatcat.wpd.sgi.com!stever@uunet.uu.net (Steve
 Whitney)
Subject: A tale of two computers
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov6.153153.21438@msb.com>, ritz@msb.com (Chris Mauritz) writes:
|> For what it's worth...the 640K limit on 80X86 machines is an MS-DOS
|> limitation, not a limitation of the hardware.  There are MANY programs
|> that you can run to overcome this limit and there are several other
|> choices of OS you can run that eliminate the problem as well.  So your
|> problem is not with the hardware, it is with your OS and/or the
|> software you are using.  If you'll poke around the ibm groups for a
|> while you will be able to sort out what you need to get your 386
|> machine screaming along.
 
This isn't quite true.  The 640k limit was imposed by hardware in the original
 PCs.  They have something like a 1Meg address space, and the reste was reserved
 for cards, including video.
 
|>
|> Cheers,
|>
|> Chris
|> --
|>
 ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
|> Chris Mauritz                       |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access
 Unix
|> ritz@msb.com                        |(718)899-0662   v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis
 9600b
|> Copyright (C) 1991                  |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 02:31:10 GMT
From: netnews.upenn.edu!wharton.upenn.edu!zeibari@rutgers.rutgers.edu
Subject: ATARI ad.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I just couldn't believe it. I was reading the sports news paper for
Temple University and on the back page (the whole back page),
Atari had sponsored (i.e. ADVERTISED, SUPPORTED, PAID) for the news paper.
 
It goes:        ATARI
                 is
                proud
                 to
               sponsor
        Cherry & White Insight
 
 
Who got this past Jack Tramiel?  Do they still have a job?
Could Atari make such a horrible mistake and actually advertise?
Did someone kill off the dope at Atari who is against advertising?
 
Just one of those things that makes you go  Hmmm.
 
*****************************************
* Gregory Zeibari                       *
* email: zeibari@wharton.upenn.edu      *
*                                       *
* BO knows UNIX.                        *
*****************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 05:04:58 GMT
From: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!sage.cc.purdue.edu!whitehea@purdue.edu (Drew
 Whitehead)
Subject: ATARI ad.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov8.213110.1@wharton.upenn.edu> zeibari@wharton.upenn.edu
 writes:
>
>I just couldn't believe it. I was reading the sports news paper for
>Temple University and on the back page (the whole back page),
>Atari had sponsored (i.e. ADVERTISED, SUPPORTED, PAID) for the news paper.
>
 
I can hardly believe it also.  I tried for several weeks to get Atari to run
an ad in the Purdue University Exponent(Circ. about 20,000).  All they had
to do was e-mail me a Calamus ad and our users group, Purdue Atari Users Group,
would have had it run in the paper.  Yes, that's right, WE agreed to pay for
the ad out of OUR treasury and all they had to do was make the ad.  Zero cost
to them and total gain for them and it never happened.  That shows how much
they really want to advertise.
 
Drew Whitehead
President, PAUG
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 18:55:23 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!col!don@arizona.edu (Don
 Allison)
Subject: ATARI ST 4sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Do you have a different email address I could try?  I've tried to mail you
replies twice and both have been returned!
 
Don Allison
don@col.hp.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 22:59:53 GMT
From: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@pt.cs.cmu.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: B Gervin
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
PLease email me as to your intent, as I can not get through to you via email
 
mark
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 02:23:34 GMT
From: ads.com!pdel@decwrl.dec.com (Peter Delevoryas)
Subject: Falcon on Ste?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I just picked up an old copy of Falcon from the net. Turns out it
doesn't run on my STe. A call to tech support informed me that
 
1. It's not transferable, so out of luck for support.
2. It's an older version, so will probably not work on the STe
3. Go buy a copy at the store.
 
Okay, should I do that, or is there some other way to get it to work?
I guess now I'm interested in booting my STe in TOS 1.0, can this be
done? Since I don't know much about the ST/STe hardware differences,
I may be asking something ridiculous. Or ?
 
 
Looks like in my case  cheapness could be the mother of experimentation.
 
 
Peter D.
 
--
 
 login name:   L1-A
 In real life: Peter Delevoryas
 In any other life: a cheap imitation
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 91 23:31:47 CET
From: Ulf Rimkus <RIMKUS_U%DMRHRZ11.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: GEM-Windows
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hi Netters!
I'm searching for a GEM-Windows-Lib for C (PureC) to have an easy-to-use
window-handling.
Maybe there is any PD-LIB anywhere, or anyone has programmed such thing
and likes to share it with me.
Greetings, Ulf.
*************************************************************************
Canst thou draw out Leviathan with an hook?
Or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
Will he make a covenant with thee?
And wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
Lay thine hand upon him,
Remember the battle, do no more.
                                                        Job
                           ---------------
E-Mail: RIMKUS_U@DMRHRZ11.BITNET
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 14:51:43 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!sp
 ool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!lapis.labmed.umn.edu!davidli@arizona.edu
Subject: GENIE emailexit
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov6.153730.21519@msb.com>, ritz@msb.com (Chris Mauritz) writes:
> In article <7163.2906e5d2@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
 rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes:
>>But, Multiplayer gammes are now part of the Basic service!!
>
> Are you SURE about this?
 
Well, as far as I have been able to determine, there are only a few multiplayer
games (Chess, for example) which are now part of GEnie*Basic services.
 
The Multi-player Games Bulletin Board has recently been added to GEnie*Basic
services.
 
I will check further if there is interest.
 
--
 
David Paschall-Zimbel           davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
 
"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go
into the other room and read a book."  -- Groucho Marx  1890-1977
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Nov 91 23:10:09 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utorvm!ryerson!eeng6801@arizona.edu (me)
Subject: German => English translator?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
TMP@doc.ic.ac.uk (Trevor Peacock) writes:
 
> A while ago there was some talk of a rudimentary German to English
> translator program floating around.
> Does anyone have this program? I haven't seen it at terminator, so is it
> not PD/share/freeware?
> Any information will be appreciated almost as much as the program itself :~)
 
Ok answering your questions. I wrote the program. I just finished version 1.6
I'm going to send a copy to ATARI@archive.umich.edu. The program is PD.
The first few versions were pretty rudimentary, I'm going to send you the new
version so that you can try it. I will like to get any comments, suggestions.
If there is another program that works better, I'ld like to hear about it.
Right now I've a pile of German articles here that I'm trying to decipher and
although the program helps alot, it doesn't do everything. (I only speak
English, French, Spanish and Portuguese).
 
If anybody else has some comments about the program I'ld like to hear them.
 
                           Thanx,
                                       Carlos Varela
 
BITNET: EENG6801@RYERSON.CA
NANET : Carlos Varela   (ATARI ST Conf.)
FNET  : Carlos Varela  NODE 18
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 21:27:33 GMT
From: channel1![herb.chong%channel1.com]@uunet.uu.net (herb chong)
Subject: hypertext help
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
JP=>On the continuing subject of software development tools for the ST I have a
  =>suggestion -  would there be any interest in a tool for developing context
  =>sensitive "Hypertext"-style Help systems for the ST for any GEM programs [in
  =>roughly the same style as the Windows Help system on the PCs]. The advantage
  =>of such a tool would be that (if it and its standards were adopted) there wo
  =>be a consistant method of obtaining help from any standard GEM program - muc
  =>as GEM provides a standard environment for selecting files etc.
 
JP=>The (proposed) kit would contain :
 
JP=>        a) an interactive editor for creating hypertext help documents
  =>        b) a "shell application" module in the form of
  =>           functions for C/Pascal etc. to access the help, to be linked in
  =>           (with minimal pains) with existing program code; or, preferably
  =>           to form a starting prototype for the envisaged system.
  =>        c) a standard resource file to hold the help resources
 
i have one i wrote which is more than half finished. no-one wants to
license it. i'm not willing to give it away. the Help program itself is
a desk accessory that accepts user AES messages. this allows complete
implementation of context sensitive help and hypertext help from within
any GEM program. it does smart caching and remembers help files between
calls to an app so that it doesn't rebuild the help index each time. the
Help files are specially tagged ASCII files that format on the fly and
allow arbitrary screen sizes. when read in for the first time, an index
and table of contents are built. no resource file is needed or used, and
imbedded bitmaps or GEM files are allowed. when a user application needs
to do help on the topic, it sends an AES user message to the application
HELP with the HELPFILE to search and the topic to display. if the
HELPFILE isn't found, the HELPFILE file open dialog box is displayed. if
the HELPFILE is found but the topic isn't, the index or the table of
contents is displayed.
 
you are welcome to write your own, but i have done it a large part of it
already and no-one wants to pay $1 per copy as a license fee.
 
Herb...
 
Herb.Chong@Channel1.com
 
BTW, this is my first attempt to post from this BBS using the USENET
gateway. please reply by private e-mail if you get this.
---
 % SLMR 2.0 % If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast.....
--
Channel 1 (R).  Cambridge, MA
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 22:55:03 GMT
From: mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu!entropy@yale.arpa (maximum
 entropy)
Subject: MiNT 0.9 is now available
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <RIDDERBUSCH.KD.91Nov6082807@usun01.sni.de>
ridderbusch.kd@sni-usa.com (Frank Ridderbusch, D10 PU222) writes:
>In article <5669@julian.uwo.ca> ersmith@julian.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes:
>>   I've just sent the source code and binaries for MiNT 0.9 to
>>   atari.archive.umich.edu and to the moderator of comp.binaries.atari.st.
>>   [...]
>This is really great. It's time to switch to MiNT full time. Even the
>GNU Emacs 18.55 port from Edgar Roeder works. On prior MiNT versions
>this port alway aborted with a Fatal Signal 14.
>[...]
 
Has anyone else had trouble with the MiNT port of KSH unter MiNT 0.9?
It simply stopped working when I installed the new MiNT; it kept
trying to run everything in the background (as if I had typed an "&"
following every command.)  I switched to BASH in the meantime but I'm
curious to know if anyone else had this problem, or if it's just me,
and if ggascoigne (sp?) intends to upgrade KSH or release his source
code.
 
Beware that some programs compiled under older versions of MiNT to
operate in CBREAK input mode may need to be re-compiled to read using
RAW mode, due to the new tty handling in version 0.9.  I ran into this
problem with my port of JOVE (which will be posted on atari.archive as
soon as I get shell mode working, which should be possible now that
Fselect is working properly.)
 
Nick Castellano
entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu
--
entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu
entropy. . .it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Boycott AT&T, Lotus, Apple, Ashton-Tate and Xerox.  Join the League for
Programming Freedom!  Write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu for more information.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 01:16:58 GMT
From: coplex!disk!unknown@uunet.uu.net (unknown)
Subject: News programs for Atari 520 ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
   Hi..  I need a program to (at least) receive news from a local
computer.  I have an Atari 520 ST (w/ 0.5 meg, none added!).  It doesn't
have to be fancy, and probably won't be, if it has to fit on my 520..  I
have no hard drive, I do have a double sided drive.  If anyone knows of
any small program I can use, or anything else.
   And if anyone is knowledgable on the subject, please tell me:
How long would it take to get, say, 5 newsgroups at 2400 baud with mnp5,
etc?  And how hard is it to set up such an arrangement to get news off of
a university or other computer?  Thanks in advance!!  :)
 
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Shawn Beltz              :) :) :)   The opinions expressed in this message are
unknown@disk.UUCP                   the opinions expressed in this message are
uunet!ukma!corpane!disk!unknown     the opinions expressed in this message....
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 05:51:00 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!jbunch@uunet.uu.net (John Bunch)
Subject: PD or shareware Fortran Compiler out there
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I will send it off today...
 
John
 
--
John B Bunch              *  I don't want the world, I just want your
771 Madison Ave Apt.2e.   *     half....     -TMG
Albany, NY 12208          *                     jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu
(518) 436-3810            * UUCP: {...}!crdgw1!sixhub!myst!john
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 20:38:18 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!ucu
 nix.san.uc.edu!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!cbnewsc!daryl@arizona.edu (Daryl L. Monge)
Subject: Performance (was: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Here is some benchmark information from a fairly large application.
It is a real world project and represents better numbers than
synthetic benchmarks (IMHO :-).
 
The application is Spinnaker Plus; a Hypercard look alike that runs
on both Macs and PCs.  All the tested machines have Quantum 105
disks, but the tests were run in such a way that the disk I/O
system was not used. (All the cards were forced into main memory.)
 
This test compares an ATARI STe 4MB with the ICD 16Mhz accelerator,
a MAC IIcx, and a 386/33 (128KB cache), Orchid Prodesigner II VGA,
running Windows 3.0.  Obviously the Atari was running Spectre.
 
Test #1, show all cards with the screen lock on.  The display is never
modified, but the application is forced to process all the cards.
 
Atari STe-16Mhz MAC IIcx        PC 386/33
-----------------------------------------
22 seconds      14 seconds      14 seconds
 
Test #2, show all cards and display them.  The cards are very sparse
with very little graphics and 3-10 lines of text.
 
Atari STe-16Mhz MAC IIcx        PC 386/33
-----------------------------------------
58 seconds      30 seconds      150 seconds!
 
Facinating, huh?..........
 
Comments and corrections welcome.  Flames to /dev/null
--
Daryl Monge                     AT&T Bell Labs
UUCP: att!adept!daryl           VOICE: 708-713-4696
PAPER: Rm 2A-448   P.O. Box 3050, Naperville, Il 60566
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 23:20:29 GMT
From: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@pt.cs.cmu.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: Stacy
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Several people have posted about prices for the STacy.They claim that
the machine costs such and such new, etc.. While there may be some
dealers who bought a number of machines, and then were not able to move
many because the ST market just was not ready to support a laptop, and
so now have to take a huge loss on the machines in order to shift them,
I do not feel that this is the general situation, and can not really
take this into account. Once these bargains are gone, they will not be
seen again. Also, they may feel they have to move these machines to make
room for the ST book. At first this may drive STacy prices down, but
when they become hard to find, and people realize that there is no
cartridge port on the Book, and so the GCR won't work, that the STacy
has a MEGA expansion port, and so works with monitor cards and the MEGA
Talk board, and that the book has no back light, the prices of Stacy's
will not be so low. I paid $2400 a year and a half ago for my machine,
and want to make some of it back. Many people quoted the price of a
STacy 2. Well, the price of the Stacy 4 is much more than the 2, not
just the difference in memory price, thanks to Atari "engineering". I
guess, what it comes down to is that IMHO i do not feel I was being that
unreasonable. If others think so, and can get these deals, they are free
to do so. So it goes. I am not holding a gun to anyones head.
Personally, I think that it is a pretty good price for what you are
getting. Maybe I am wrong. But you might as well send the response mail
to me, and not to the net, as I may have sold it. If not, then yell at
me for my next post! :)
 
 
mark
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 22:06:12 GMT
From: ccncsu!lamar!sytang@purdue.edu (Shoou-yu tang)
Subject: ST Clubs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
 Well, FRAUG (Front Range Atari Users Group) has been very stable in the past
 3 or 4 years, some member changes but the monthly meeting still attract about
 same number of member. We even still has 8bit user and 8bit library. (Even show
 it in the recent two mall show).
 FRAUG has member interested in various area -- MIDI, DTP, etc, so we have one
 topic each month's meeting. (like MIDI maze, MIDI musics, Calamus, Migrah's
 hand scanner. And this month will be telecommincation).
 The involvement of every member is the key to the club's active, we all learn
 something new from the disscusion in the meeting and BBS.
 There are some other AUG in US that can put out good show like Glendale show,
 so it all dependent on the people.
 Just my personal view might not agree with others but that's the diversity of
 the ST user.
 Tang
 sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Nov 91 02:54:31 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Nov7.194716.587@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu writes:
> Boy, do I feel like a yutz.  In a previous post, I stated my desire to
> find the source for less.ttp (not the MINT one), so I could hardcode in
> my favorite options for use as the Neodesk alternate page displayer.  The
> reason for this was that Neodesk does not allow you to specify any options
> in the path to the pager program.  Well, it was just pointed out to me that
> I can simply set the LESS environmental variable to whatever options I
> want, and less will automagically pick them up (environmental variable
> setting was one of the original things that prompted the creation of
> Neodesk, sheesh).  Anyway, I now can use less in my favorite form to view
> files from the desktop.  It takes three steps:
>
>       1.  Create a copy of less.ttp, and rename it less.tos (this is to
>       prevent Neodesk from popping up an argument dialog, less does not
>       seem to care).  If you use less with Gulam or such (as I do), this
>       should be a separate copy.
>
>       2.  Set the "alternate file viewer" to the full path to less.tos, under
>       "set preferences", "paths" in Neodesk.
 
Were did you get this info from, I have the latest Neodesk but can't
find how to use any  alt, file viewer, I have looked through the Manuals
mant times..Please can you help..
 
The only way posible to me is as a install application, but this is no
good as there are to many text file extentions..
 
 
> --
>     ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
>              Mickey R. Boyd          |  "Come to your senses professor
>           FSU Computer Science       |     Fernberg.  You did not transcend
>         Technical Support Group      |     the time-space continuum.  You
>        email:  boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu    |     got drunk in a topless bar."
>     ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 
Thanks..!
 
--
***  Roger W. Sheppard      *      Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd        *    *   GEnie.  R.SHEPPARD5               ***
***  Kapiti                        At least I don't Flicker,         ***
***  New Zealand..          *      not like a dying light globe      ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Nov 91 23:13:04 GMT
From: psinntp!sgigate!odin!flatcat.wpd.sgi.com!stever@uunet.uu.net (Steve
 Whitney)
Subject: What's! happening?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <9818@cactus.org>, covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
|> BTW, C Johnsons reports there are serious bugs in the TC2 GEM library
|> as well as the "mfree" function.
|>
 
Charles Johnson now says that the bug in Mfree wasn't TC's.  The other bug
is in the GEMDOS library.  It assumes that a register will be saved through
GEMDOS calls, and it actually may not be.
 
|> any other TC2 users out there? Can you confirm these bugs?
|>
|>
|> --
|> Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
|> CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
