Info-Atari16 Digest         Sat, 17 Aug 91       Volume 91 : Issue 440
 
Today's Topics:
                   Atari Show - how much? (2 msgs)
                    Clearing space on a hard disk
                           Great *IDEA*...
              Lap-link type program? for ST/TT? (2 msgs)
                           Lasar C on a TT
                              Modulators
                              PC-DITTO I
       Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR)
                 ST User mag. (was Re:Atari CD-ROM?)
                       System 7 and Spectre GCR
                  TT demos and sound samples wanted
                              TT pricing
                             TT problems?
                   v_opnwk call (was Dialog Boxes)
                               YG modem
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 15:28:59 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!urmel!rwthinf!cip-s01!struppi@uunet.uu.net (Stefan Rupp)
Subject: Atari Show - how much?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <9108130959.aa23637@castle.ed.ac.uk> eang62@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
 (Herbert Sauro) writes:
>
>Dear Netters,
>
>Does anybody know how much (I assume its not free) the enterance fee is
>for the Atari show in Germany?
 
Hi Herb,
 
the entrance fee of the Atari show will cost you about 10,- DEM. I dunno
the exact price, but it is not very much. If you are studying, the fee will
be even cheaper.
 
Ciao,
     struppi
 
        NOTE: Please do *NOT* e-mail from out of Germany! Thank you!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Stefan Rupp - RWTH Aachen |  UUCP: struppi@cip-s02.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 08:07:38 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Atari Show - how much?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <5762@syma.sussex.ac.uk> grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas)
writes:
>From article <9108130959.aa23637@castle.ed.ac.uk>, by
 eang62@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk (Herbert Sauro):
>>
>> One other question, why does a TT cost almost as much as a decent Mac
>> in the UK while in Germany its almost a 1000 pounds cheaper?
>
>My guess is that Atari Germany expect to sell machines to real users.
>Atari UK, on the other hand, expect to sell TTs only to a few developers
>who can be considered more or less a captive market.  It's not worth
>Atari UK's while to shave their margins.  They're not going to give the
>TT decent marketing support anyway, so why bother.
 
I agree. The only people buying TT's seem to be developers and Atari fans
with more than normal amounts to spend.
 
>Sorry to be so cynical.
Don't be. You're not alone.
 
> Yes, I do know that Atari UK show the TT as one
>of the range of machines in their current ads in magazines like ST
>Format and ST User.
 
Readers of which know all about the TT. The readers of PCW however remain
ignorant of it's existance and so show no interest. When will Atari learn?
 
>  The picture shows a man in a business suit sitting
>in front of a TT running Hyperchart.  I would be surprised if the number
>of ST Format/User readers who fit into that sort of category reaches
>double figures.
 
I think the 'man' is actually Bob Gleadow playing an Alfred Hitchcock role
by starring in his own brochures. Presumably he is also the man who hired
Staddon based on his ability to play Kick Off. :-)
 
Since most ST Luser/Doormat readers are game playing kids I reckon Luser must
have had a hard time finding a serious user to give the TT to in that
competition a while back.
 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
!                                                                            !
! Neil Forsyth                      JANET:  neil@uk.ac.hw.cs                 !
! Dept. of Computer Science         ARPA:   neil@cs.hw.ac.uk                 !
! Heriot-Watt University            UUCP:   ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil          !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK           "That was never 5 minutes!"              !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 11:44:08 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger
 Sheppard)
Subject: Clearing space on a hard disk
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <5749@syma.sussex.ac.uk> grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas)
 writes:
> From article <1991Aug12.103711.9886@actrix.gen.nz>, by
 Alex.Valdez@actrix.gen.nz (Alex Valdez):
> > Why not just backup one's hard disk (by files, not an image copy), do
> > a low-level format, and restore? And you get a clean unfragmented
> > drive in the process as well.
>
> Because of the time it takes.  A robust defragmenter will take a lot of
> time, too, but it should be possible for you to do other things while it
> gets on with it.  With a full backup, you have to be there feeding
> floppies into the machine (assuming you don't have such luxuries as tape
> streamers or spare partitions).
>
> I still haven't seen a friendly, reliable defragmenter for the ST.  I've
 
> Graham
> --
> Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK
> Email: grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk   Phone: +44 273 678165  Fax: +44 273 685865
 
Have ever tried Ataries Check Disk 3, it is only given to developers
so far, but why can't Atari realese it for general use.
.
I have used it and it works very well, but only optimises for Read.
 
Also have you used the Atari Archiver Program, ? I think is a UK product.
--
***  Roger W. Sheppard             Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd           *     GEnie.  R.SHEPPARD5               ***
***  Kapiti                *  *    At least I don't Flicker,         ***
***  New Zealand..          *      not like a dying light globe      ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 12:46:14 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.oh
 io-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa399@arizona.edu (Len
 Stys)
Subject: Great *IDEA*...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In a previous article, wmtwen@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Erlend Nagel) says:
 
>The solution to these problems we all experience might be invented by
>me.
>Atari and Commodore should become one big company that makes
>interesting computers and software.
>They both have a line of Motorola 680x0 based computers and they both
>run a lot of the same software. It would be better if software did not
>have to be ported to two computers. If e.g. an Atari ST and an Amiga
>2000 both run Minix they can even exchange binaries. Also Atari and
>Commodore have for some part a common history (the Tramiel boys etc.).
>They started their line of homecomputers both with 8-bit 65xx machines.
>And it would bring down costs for development of new computers and the
>costs for the purchasing of new technology.
>
>It seems to me that these should be enough reasons for implementation
>of my idea.
>Lets hear your flames...
>
 
 
The problems with if a merger between Commodore and Atari took place, are:
 
1) Which line of 16/32-bit computers to continue?  ST/TT or Amiga?
 
        I don't want to switch and neither do Amiga owners.
 
2) I can almost bet you that Jack and his sons do not like many people
   at Commodore.  I'd be surprised if they talked to each other let alone
   reached a merger agreement.
 
3) I think these companies enjoy rivaling each other and it produces some
   excellent technology from both companies.
 
But seriously, get real- it will never happen.
 
Len Stys aa399@cleveland.freenet.cwru.edu
>
 
--
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Aug 91 01:34:00 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: Lap-link type program? for ST/TT?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <9108142135.AA25429@ludwig.sharebase.com> glenn@ludwig.sharebase.com
 (Glenn Linderman) writes:
> Gotta move my data from my Mega4ST to my TT.  Anyone know of a lap-link type
> program that would work for this? 40MB is a lot to move by floppy...Thanks
>
> Glenn Linderman   glenn@sharebase.com   408-378-7575 x2366
 
Well why not just connect the Hard Drive from the Mega to the TT, then use
a Program like Cheata 3,? , or some thing like that, that can move files very
quickly.
 
Or is this a internal drive.?
--
***  Roger W. Sheppard             Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd           *     GEnie.  R.SHEPPARD5               ***
***  Kapiti                *  *    At least I don't Flicker,         ***
***  New Zealand..          *      not like a dying light globe      ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Aug 91 12:38:36 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!newcastle.ac.uk!catless!ndch@uunet.uu.net (Dave Halliday)
Subject: Lap-link type program? for ST/TT?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug16.013400.10447@actrix.gen.nz>,
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes:
|>In article <9108142135.AA25429@ludwig.sharebase.com>
glenn@ludwig.sharebase.com (Glenn Linderman) writes:
|>> Gotta move my data from my Mega4ST to my TT.  Anyone know of a
lap-link type
|>> program that would work for this? 40MB is a lot to move by floppy...Thanks
|>>
|>> Glenn Linderman   glenn@sharebase.com   408-378-7575 x2366
|>
|>Well why not just connect the Hard Drive from the Mega to the TT, then use
|>a Program like Cheata 3,? , or some thing like that, that can move files very
|>quickly.
|>
 
Why not just connect the drive to the TT and use a CLI to transfer the files
recursivly and then go for a coffee.  BTW if the HD is internal why not take it
out and connect it to the TT's SCSI bus.
 
Dave.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave      Address:  Computing Dept. Newcastle University, NE1 7RU. UK.
Halliday  EMail  :  D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk
          Phone  :  +44 91 222 8214            Fax :  +44 91 222 8232
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 21:10:10 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news.bbn.co
 m!bbn.com!aking@arizona.edu (Allen King)
Subject: Lasar C on a TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
   How do you get Lasar C's compiler to run on the TT?  I've been told
it will, but the following avenues haven't work:
 
1) Using the TT's desktop, the environmental variables aren't set
properly. How do you do that? Playing around setting the_envp in
low-memory (around 4CA or so) does nothing. Perhaps I must learn pexec
and write a launcher, but there has been much discussion on that in
the past which I have forgotten and scares me off.  Wasn't there a
program to do this floating around around a year or so ago?  Does it
run on a TT?
 
2) Both Gulam and NeoDesk-CLI allow setting of environmental
variables, but both have a funny problem with make -- they can run
make, but make can't run cc.ttp. I've put in absolute path names
everywhere, put everything in one directory, and still nothing.
If I put the cc.ttp commands in a batch file, same problem.
 
3) If, under Gulam, I call ccom.ttp and link(is it?) directly, things
compile. However there are two problems with linking: a) there is
a command line limitation which makes it difficult to link my 20-odd
files together, and b) cc must do some magic with libraries which I
do not know about, because I suddenly get gobs unresolved (library)
symbols.
 
 
   Tantalizingly close, but no cigar. HELP!
 
   Please email answers to aking@pebbles.bbn.com as my workload prevents
me from reading the net this summer. I'll summarize to the net if
a couple of people ask me.
 
   Thanks
 
                        Allen King
 
 
P.S.: What is a good EMACS to run on the TT in TT-Medium or ST-high
resolution mode? Where is it living on the net?
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 11:31:35 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!"R." Ferneyhough <csx28@seq1.keele.ac.uk>@decwrl.dec.com (R.
 Ferneyhough)
Subject: Modulators
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Posting this for a friend - I do not read atari newsgroups so please reply
by e-mail - thanks.
 
Sorry if this is a frequently asked question...
 
Is it possible to modify and/or obtain a gadget/widget to enable an STF to be
connected to an ordinary TV set so as to use the Low and Med res modes.
Any info gratefully received.
 
Ralph.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 11:58:58 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!pgardner@uunet.uu.net (Phil Gardner x3289)
Subject: PC-DITTO I
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Any netter have PC-DITTO I software they no longer have a need for, and wish
to sell ?
 
--
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Aug 91 17:39:52 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.e
 du!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!bry@arizona.ed
 u (bryan.nystrom)
Subject: Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
From article <83370@brunix.UUCP>, by mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale):
> In article <31604@know.pws.bull.com> JUDD@CC49.CRL.AECL.CA writes:
>> I am trying to bring up the System 7 Mac operating system under Spectre
> 3.0.  I
>> built the System 7 version I am using to run on a MacPlus without
> printer and
>> network services.  So far no luck.
>
>  Currently System 7 does not work on Spectre (any version). It's in the
> hands of Mr. Small as to when it will work.  This is a major system
> revision with many things changed so it might take him awhile but this is
> Dave, so it'll be done.
>
>  Marshall
>
>  *******************************************************************
> -> Internet: mjv@brownvm.brown.edu
> Failed _Brave New Words_ slogans #8:
>   "We've never heard of you either."
 
I also read last night on GEnie that Dave is VERY seriously considering
going after the 256K ROM emulation.  He had put out "Feelers" about a
month or so ago as to how much interest people would have in the 256K version
and WHY they wanted it.  Putting out "Feelers" was much the same way that
the 128K Spectre and the SST board came about being done.  He did state that
color MAC support (Color Quickdraw) could only be supported on 68020's and
above (read: maybe the SST), though he didn't say for sure that he would
be trying for that.
 
 
Bryan Nystrom
bry@ihlpm.att.com
8/14/91
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 11:16:32 GMT
From:
 mcsun!news.funet.fi!fuug!sics.se!ifi.uio.no!nuug!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no!stig
 vi@uunet.uu.net (Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: ST User mag. (was Re:Atari CD-ROM?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug13.111212.22861@newcastle.ac.uk>,
 D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Halliday) writes:
|> In article <1991Aug12.203535.9570@ugle.unit.no>, stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO
|> (Stig Vidar Hovland) writes:
|> |>In article <2521@tharr.UUCP>, steveh@tharr.UUCP (Steve Hebditch) writes:
|> |>|> In article <3579@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth)
 writes:
|> |>|> >The new Luser hasn't changed much. It's still as gaudy and as game
|> orientated
|> |>|> >as ever. Maybe it is the best ST mag in the UK but it's still crap.
|> |>|> >
|> |>|> >When will ST User get their finger out?
|> |>|>
|> |>|> That isn't the new ST User. The completely revamped version will be
|> |>|> appearing next month with a definite promise from the editor of much
|> |>|> more of ST World type coverage merged in with games relegated to the
|> |>|> supplement.
|> |>|>
|> |>|> We shall wait and see...
|> |>|>
|> |>|> --
|> |>|>            <steveh%tharr.uucp@ukc.ac.uk> <...ukc!axion!tharr!steveh>
|> |>|>                 <Free Usenet in the UK from Tharr: 0234 841503>
|> |>
|>
|> |>
|> |>I have seen it. It is still a gamers magazine. Save your money or by
|> some german magazines instead.
|>
|> How could you? The 'new' ST User with pullout games section etc. isn't due
 out
|> untill next month (about 7th sept). Though I must admit I doubt it will be
 upto
|> the standard of the old ST World or some of the German mags.
|>
|> |>
|> |>Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
|>
|> Dave Halliday.
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Dave      Address:  Computing Dept. Newcastle University, NE1 7RU. UK.
|> Halliday  EMail  :  D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk
|>           Phone  :  +44 91 222 8214            Fax :  +44 91 222 8232
 
In the August issue of ST World the editor writes:
"Atari ST User incorporating ST World will be available from the September
 issue"
On the front cover of the September issue of ST User it is written
 "Incorporating ST World"
Maybe there will be a new layout for the October issue, but I don't belive there
 will be any big
changes.
 
Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 18:20:25 GMT
From: brunix!brownvm.brown.edu!mjv@uunet.uu.net (Marshall Vale)
Subject: System 7 and Spectre GCR
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <31604@know.pws.bull.com> JUDD@CC49.CRL.AECL.CA writes:
> I am trying to bring up the System 7 Mac operating system under Spectre
3.0.  I
> built the System 7 version I am using to run on a MacPlus without
printer and
> network services.  So far no luck.
 
 Currently System 7 does not work on Spectre (any version). It's in the
hands of Mr. Small as to when it will work.  This is a major system
revision with many things changed so it might take him awhile but this is
Dave, so it'll be done.
 
 Marshall
 
 *******************************************************************
-> Internet: mjv@brownvm.brown.edu
Failed _Brave New Words_ slogans #8:
  "We've never heard of you either."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 11:24:25 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!ukma!rex!wupost!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!maxwell.oac.uci.edu!jvance1@a
 rizona.edu (Joachim Vance)
Subject: TT demos and sound samples wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <meulenbr.681633746@cstw18> meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl (Frans
 Meulenbroeks) writes:
>Hi,
>
>Since I now have my TT for a few weeks I was wondering if there aren't
>any neat demo's floating around for the TT.
 
    I have seen some potentially neat looking stuff for the TT on
Compuserve, both animations and still pics made with Prism Paint and
other Lexicor software.  Maybe someone can upload them to the Net?
 
 
--
Joachim Vance
~
     I am antisesquipedalian--Opposed to the use of long words.
~
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Aug 91 17:27:20 GMT
From: castle.edinburgh.ac.uk!eang62@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Herbert Sauro)
Subject: TT pricing
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Dear netters,
 
Thanks to all those to let me know how much is was to enter the Atari
August show in Germany, much appreciated.
 
When I saw the Atari UK adverts in the British mags I too thought it
was rather strange to target the TT at men (or women) in business suits
(+ Financial Times and a very nice fountain pen). Why on earth does a
buisness man need a TT, after all they only need a spreadsheet with a
big red button marked SUM (i.e ADD!) and an ability to do very pretty
pie charts and histograms. I've been interested in the TT mainly
because it would make a nice machine for doing number crunching since
it has a floating-point processor built-in (which I think is an
excellent idea). I am fed up with PC's coz' of their brain damaged
memory, Macs are OK but for the fact that they're not really development
machines so that leaves the Amiga or Atari and since I had an ST it
really boiled down to  the TT. But, they've priced it out of my reach!
 
The Next is an interesting machine to consider because the educational
price of a Next is not that far from an 8MEG TT and for the price its an
absolute bargin of a buy. If on the other-hand the TT were priced more
in line with German prices then the TT would be much more enticing. Now
if someone were to buy a load of TTs from Germany, plug in some British
ROMS + a British keyboard.....
 
Herb
Edinburgh.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 16 Aug 91 17:11:49 GMT
From: cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!cmm1@rutgers.rutgers.edu
 (Christopher M Mauritz)
Subject: TT problems?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <2516@tharr.UUCP> ford@tharr.UUCP (Stephen Usher) writes:
>The vertical bars are interference, and are quite normal.
>
>Your monitor (fuzziness) seems to be caused by it being out of focus, I
>should get your dealer to replace it, or at the very least get an engineer
>to tune it up. (As I have said in an earlier article, my first one was right
>out of adjustment, it looks like Atari don't adjust them on the production
>line, they juat build them)
>
>It's also well known that the monitor can play havoc with the TT floppy, this
>is because Atari decided that the monitor didn't really need any shielding,
>so left it off (I disagree with this as whenever I switch the TT monitor on
>all FM radios in the house loose their signal! The TT on it's own hardly
>produces a hiss).
 
You get what you pay for....
 
>You would have thought, as the Atari monitor is far more expensive than the
>competition, it would be of a very high quality, but as it is it's only really
>good if you get a well adjusted one.
 
Um, I guess not....
 
Cheers,
 
Chris
 
p.s.  Anyone see Atari's earnings the other day?  Hehe...what a joke.
--------------+----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz | Cuba's *superior* human rights record is only part of the
              | answer; it's superior social conditions are another.
--------------|        -Harel Barzilai-
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 17:44:12 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-stat
 e.edu!jreiss@arizona.edu (Joseph W Reiss)
Subject: v_opnwk call (was Dialog Boxes)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <7155453@alice.hobby.nl> hvaalde@cs.vu.nl writes:
>v_opnwk() is used by AES to install the desktop. It can be used from within
>an AUTO folder program to enable the use of VDI aslong as the workstation
>is closed properly before the program exits. If it isn't AES won't be able
>the open a new workstation and exits == reboot
 
Does this mean that some enterprising utility creator out there could
write an auto folder program that would allow GEM programs to run in
the AUTO folder by calling v_opnwk() and closing the workstation at
the end of the AUTO sequence?  If so, why hasn't anyone done it?
 
How about it, Double Clickers?
--
__________
  |   |___)         .------------------------------------------.
\_/OE |  \EISS      | USENET: jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu |
          `----     `------------------------------------------'
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 15 Aug 91 20:05:34 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!paperb
 oy!hsdndev!dartvax!coos.dartmouth.edu!dav@arizona.edu (William David Haas)
Subject: YG modem
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I grabbed the binary for Y-modem-G (or was it YG-modem?) from atari-archive
and it claims to be the fastest transfer method for compression modems.  It
sounds great to me but I need to be running it on the other end too.  Anybody
know where to get the source for Y-modem-G for a UNIX machine?  Is it BSD
or Ultrix?  My news machine just became an Ultrix machine :( and nothing
seems to work anymore.
 
-dav
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
