Info-Atari16 Digest         Mon, 24 Jun 91       Volume 91 : Issue 349
 
Today's Topics:
                            1.44 HD drives
             Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! (5 msgs)
                     Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #345
                        Juvenile user war crap
                         Program of the week
                          Spectre GCR price
                ST Software from British distributors
                      Sybex STe/TT systems book
                     This week's program (2 msgs)
                             Thomas Hill
                     TOS ERROR #35:  What is it?
                         UUPC Program wanted
                    What do I need to use gcc/g++
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 08:39:03 GMT
From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud)
Subject: 1.44 HD drives
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
High Density 1.44 MB disk on TT and MEGA STE
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
In the TT 3.05 and MEGA STE 2.05 TOS version there are in addition
to "SINGLE SIDED" and "DOUBLE SIDED" a format option for
"HIGH DENSITY" in the resource file in ROM.  This is removed in
the dialog box for format, but can be turned on my flipping over
one of the DIP-switches inside the computer.  And if you put a
HD-drive inside a TT it actually works (we have testet it).
 
The big question is - Is it safe to use HD drive on the TT with
the standard Floppy Disc Controller, AND can I use this on my
MEGA STE too, or should we wait for new controllers from Atari
(will they arrive soon - come on Atari - what about some info?)
 
 
 Lars-Erik  /  ABK-BBS +47 2132659  /   ____ ______ ________________________
  Osterud  /  larserio@ifi.uio.no  /   /___    /            The norwegian ST
__________/ ______________________/   ____/   /   Klubben,  user association
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 00:57:49 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wciu!abode!scale@arizona.edu (Luis Outumuro)
Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
        Hi Thomas (Darling),
                Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well...
 
"Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time.  If you're frustrated
that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine.
But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements
in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence.  Grow up.  A "my
computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter
how you may attempt to dress it up."
 
        A bit of humor.....
 
"You noble soul!  The self-sacrifice!  In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the
conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior.
I do this as a service!"
 
        Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =~)  Thanks for saying what
many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say.  Bye..........
 
                                        Luis
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 03:19:03 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.col
 umbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1@arizona.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes:
>ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes:
>
>> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever.
>
>Bzzzt!  Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years.
>
        I had NO intention of getting into this thread. I thought
I'd read it for the humor content. BUT, you are totally wrong,
and that shouldn't stand.
        Commodore IS having its best quarters in a very long
time. The Christmas quarter (from Oct. 1 -- Dec. 31, 1990) they
had their 3rd largest sales EVER and earnings were tripled from
the prior year quarter.
        The last quarter (Jan. 1 -- Mar. 31, 1991) was also well
above the prior year quarter, with something like a 10% increase
in sales and a large increase in earnings (primarily cause they
were so bad the year before), something like $10 or $11 million.
        -- Ethan
 
"...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it
had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable
of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact
that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it."
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 04:55:13 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pi
 tt.edu!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Jun24.005749.777@abode.ttank.com> scale@abode.ttank.com (Luis
 Outumuro) writes:
>
>       Hi Thomas (Darling),
>               Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well...
>
>"Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time.  If you're frustrated
>that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine.
>But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements
>in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence.  Grow up.  A "my
>computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter
>how you may attempt to dress it up."
>
>       A bit of humor.....
>
>"You noble soul!  The self-sacrifice!  In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the
>conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior.
>I do this as a service!"
>
>       Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =~)  Thanks for saying what
>many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say.  Bye..........
>
>                                       Luis
 
  I'm just wondering what our dear friend over in Commie-land (Amiga, not
USSR <grin>) would feel if someone were to step into their message
base and kindly show them how to convert over from Commodore to the
Atari.  While this is called a "friendly" thing, for one no one on here
asked for this "help."  If someone wants help, do it in PRIVATE.
It remins me of something done in wartime and even during Desert Storm:
drop tons of propoganda on the enemy telling them step by step how
to surrender (many of the Iraqi soldiers who surrendered carried these
"information slips").
 
  While I admit it is a stretch comparing this to the war, the point
is that the same strategy/technique is being employed.
 
  or in short: I didn't ask, I don't remember seeing ANY postings here
about it, and thus we really ain't interested in your "help."
So I kindly ask our noble friend to save his blessings for those
who want and need it - in the Commodore section...
 
  end, fine, et al...
 
                                        Robert Anisko
                                        rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 10:54:10 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sugar!
 peter@arizona.edu (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes:
> And unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems
> they've got now, they never will be.
 
Oh boy, this was a design problem in the first MIDI software on the Amiga,
has nothing to do with anything Commodore is responsible for, and hasn't
been a *real* problem for years. We've run heavy MIDI streams through multi-
program pipes, the MIDI clock on the Amiga (using the CIA timers) never
skipped a beat, and CPU usage sat at 9%...
--
Peter da Silva.   `-_-'   <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
                   'U`    "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 11:04:08 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sugar!
 peter@arizona.edu (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Atari-To-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <SCOTT.91Jun23172143@breeze.cs.odu.edu> scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D.
 Yelich) writes:
> Anyway, my ST does what I need a computer to do.  Most people don't
> have the money nor the need to get a super home computer.
 
Well then, it's good that the Amiga 500 costs $500.
 
> For years now I have had people ask me about which personal computer to
> purchase.
 
Amiga. I pushed the machine before I ever got one. I put off buying a
personal computer for 6 years waiting for something like the Amiga to
come out. There is still, 6 years later, *NO* other personal computer
with an operating system that satisfies my *minimum* functionality
requirements, unless you go out and buy a UNIX box.
 
And at that it's one of the cheapest machines out there.
 
> MY atari does what I need it to do.
 
You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer?
 
I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's
called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient,
and responsive multitasking is amazing.
 
There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest.
Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but
there *is* something better.
 
And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did.
--
Peter da Silva.   `-_-'   <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
                   'U`    "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 91 18:09:18 CDT
From: Mike Dorman <MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #345
To: Atari List <Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
 
>Try this: Wrote your own version of `cat' and be sure that you open
>the input files and the output file in binary mode!
>
>-bernd
I have done just this, written a binary mode file splitter/concatenator,
with a nice GEM front end (if you like such things, I know some don't).
I will try to post it to atari.archive within the next two days.
 
FWIW, I wrote it so I could transfer the GCC 1.40 sources from the PCs
at work (with ftp access) to the ST at home.
 
Mike.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Michael Alan Dorman   :                                                     :
: MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU : Hobbies are things people do when they should be    :
: BIX: syssupport       :   sleeping.  --M.A.D.                               :
: GEnie: M.DORMAN2      :                                                     :
: PostalNet:            :                                                     :
:   Box 8068            : Stonehenge was built by two drunks with no          :
:   Tuscaloosa, AL      :   witnesses.  --P.S.McGhee                          :
:               35486   :                                                     :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 07:17:20 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve
 @arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: Juvenile user war crap
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
[In article <9106231954.AA23332@cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
     aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes ... ]
 
 > From: steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington)
 > Please keep the juvenile user war crap in Cleveland, and off Usenet.
 > It serves no purpose related to comp.sys.atari.st.
 >
 > This has nothing to do with Cleveland.  You would have to be a juvenile user
 > to think it did.
 
Sigh. I don't know why I bother. Maybe I should just unhook
comp.sys.atari.st and rely on GEnie, where they pay people to spike
ruggie user fight trash.
 
You and the ill-mannered Amiga fanatic from Cleveland Freenet are
engaging in a public pissing match, posting lists of messages from
Freenet's Commodore forums and recycling ignorant, inflammatory,
ill-intended messages.
 
It is noise. It drives reasonable people of good will away from the
newsgroup. It has no place here. If you think you're doing Atari
owners or c.s.a.st readers a favor, you're mistaken.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 01:14:39 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff)
Subject: Program of the week
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hi,
could you *PLEASE* post your binaries into c.b.a.s and not here? Nothing
against you personally or DC...
/s/
--
Udo Erdelhoff                               smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de
Am Westheck 170                             Fido:  Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1
W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG)                    Maus:  Udo Erdelhoff @ DO
       Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 08:26:01 GMT
From: kawakami%ocf.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami)
Subject: Spectre GCR price
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
     SPECTRE GCR might be forsale
 
I am thinking of selling my GCR and buying a "real mac"...
 
What can I expect for the Spectre GCR with the latest disks (v 3.0)
and the ROMS?
 
Is $300 too much to ask?
 
John Kawakami                  kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu
                               ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 04:20:23 GMT
From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!dddean@arizona.edu
 (David D. Dean)
Subject: ST Software from British distributors
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello:
 
        I have just recently started collecting 'ST ACTION', and was
intrigued by the programs that are available from British distributors,
and was wondering if anyone in the US has used any of them?  I know that
the prices will be higher than what is listed in the magazines, but I
would love to get some of the programs over there that I cannot over here.
 Also:  Would there be any type of compatibility problems?  I have heard
that the programs over there will not run on our US machines.
 
Thanks for any info... In Advance!
 
 
You can send any replies to:
David D. Dean, President       David D. Dean, Vice Chairman
Explorer Post 891              Exploring Officer's Association
AT&T Systems/Bell Labs         Central Ohio Council
dddean@bluemoon.uucp           Columbus, OH  43227
 
**** Any opinions are that of the author, and NOT of AT&T ****
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 10:05:41 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.arc.nasa.gov!uhccux!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!k
 iki@arizona.edu (Jack W. Wine)
Subject: Sybex STe/TT systems book
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Has anyone in Germany purchased the new 1500 page Sybex book on the Atari
STe/TT?  The author is Reschke and the German edition ISBN is 388 745 8885.
To order, contact:
 
                 Sybex Verlag GmbH
                 Vogelsanger Weg 111
                 D-4000 Duesseldorf 30
                 West Germany
                 Phone: (49) 211 618020
                 FAX:   (49) 211 6180227
 
If you have it, could you please elaborate on the contents?  Also, I would
like to know the price and if there is any indication that it will be trans-
lated to English (or your willingness to do so!).
 
Thanks,
Jack
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 02:02:35 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.
 uq.oz.au!brolga!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@arizona.edu (Warwick Allison)
Subject: This week's program
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
>This week's program will copy a file that has a bad sector(s) somewhere in the
>file.  This archive includes docs and the program.
 
Sounds useful.
 
 
 
 
>100% assembly
 
 
        ~ Oh.  In that case, I will not use it.
 
Why does an IO program need to use assembly?
 
I think the most required attribute for an IO program would be:
 
        Correctness (ie. Stuff-up-my-files-and-I'll-kill-you)
 
 
While the least required attribute would be:
 
        Efficiency
 
 
Since the program will spend 99% of it's time waiting for the disk anyway.
Using the assembly instruction
 
        move.IO   #"A:file","B:file"
 
which, as you know, copies two files in one clock cycle, then waits for
the disk to catch up, would only speed up the process by 1%.
 
 
Don't get me wrong, I use assembly a lot.  But only for speed critical routines
that have obvious correctness (eg. Sprite works / Sprite doesn't work).
 
Ciao,
Warwick.
--
  _-_|\       warwick@cs.uq.oz.au
 /     *  <-- Computer Science Department,
 \_.-._/      University of Queensland,
      v       Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 01:14:39 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff)
Subject: This week's program
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In <1991Jun22.003927.19972@menudo.uh.edu>, ATARI Computer Enthusiasts writes:
 
>We have posted _all_ of them to comp.binaries, but alas, they have not gone
>thru.  We have decided to post them here, since we can apparently pump out
>the programs faster than the moderator can review them...
I don't know what's wrong in the staates, but all your programs in comp.bin
were recieved here in Germany..
/s/
 
--
Udo Erdelhoff                               smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de
Am Westheck 170                             Fido:  Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1
W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG)                    Maus:  Udo Erdelhoff @ DO
       Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 01:48:52 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pi
 tt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk@arizona.edu (Brian 'Rev P-K'
 Siano)
Subject: Thomas Hill
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
        I don't post or read this echo very often-- most of the subjects are
a little outside of my interests-- but I couldn't help but notice Thomas
Hill's notes about the ST and Amiga.
 
        On local boards, I've grown very tired of the computer wars. Not just
because it's a pretty senseless topic to argue about to begin with, but
because the only way anyone is remotely justified in claiming superiority for
his computer is if he BUILT and DESIGNED the damn thing himself. But 99.9% of
us can lay claim to having the cash, credit cards, or wealthy parents that
enable us to make a purchase-- at BEST.
 
        And, because I'm an open-minded sort, I don't bust on other peoples'
purchases; for one thing, we don't argue over what brand of CD players we
buy, and another, different strokes for different folks.
 
        Now, Thomas Hill's endless touting of the Amiga struck me as more
than a little strange. Not because some of his facts might be wrong, or
because he was presuming to know things about the ST marketplace that we
didn't.
 
        But think about this; Thomas Hill goes out of his way to bust on ST
users, and wants to convince us to use Amigas. Granted, they're nice
machines-- my roommate just bought a 3000-- but why is Thomas Hill so
messianic about them?
 
        I can understand, halfway, if Thomas had found Jesus or had submitted
to the will of Allah, and wanted us to do the same. But why is Thomas so
wrapped up in what computers we own? Is he an Amiga salesperson? A Commodore
marketing manager? Why, exactly, is he so emotionally committed to making
sure that we own HIS kind of machine? Does owning an ST constitute a moral
affront to him?
 
        Issues of STs and Amigas aside, I think it's pretty clear that Thomas
has some problems. Not even the do-or-die Commodore 64 fans I know-- mainly
children with few other interests to hold their allegiances-- get as worked
up as THomas does. I can think of a dozen better causes for Thomas to worry
about-- say, supporting the Electronic Freedom Foundation, or better, using
his fables Amiga to crank out letters on behalf of Amnesty International.
 
        In short: what sort of deranged, socially-deprived noodnik would give
a tinker's dam about what computer anyone else uses-- and would actively
campaign to sell merchandise that he has no immediate financial stake in?
Heck, I've seen more rational stuff coming out of Jesus freaks.
 
 
======================================================================
Brian Siano, aka      [ "Mr. A. Hitler, the old Nazi thing, says
                      [ Mickey's silly. Imagine that! Well, Mickey is
Rev. Philosopher-King [ going to save Mr. A. Hitler from drowning or
                      [ something some day. Just wait and see if he
 revpk@cellar.UUCP    [ doesn't. Then won't Mr. A. Hitler be ashamed!"
                      [ -- Walt Disney, 1933.
======================================================================
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 04:13:37 GMT
From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!dddean@arizona.edu
 (David D. Dean)
Subject: TOS ERROR #35:  What is it?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Hello:
 
        A while ago, I went to use my FLASH program to call the local
boards like I always do, but this time; I got a TOS ERROR #35 message and
couldn't use this program.  Frustrated, I returned to the store I bought
this program from, and they said I'd have to send it to the company.  So I
did... I am now using the VT52 emulator that comes with the USA Laguage
disk.
 
I am sure that when I ask this, some people will no doubt wonder too:
 
        Wbat does the TOS ERROR #35 mean?  I looked up the error number,
but found it no where in any of the manuals.
 
Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
 
You can send any replies to:
David D. Dean, President       David D. Dean, Vice Chairman
Explorer Post 891              Exploring Officer's Association
AT&T Systems/Bell Labs         Central Ohio Council
dddean@bluemoon.uucp           Columbus, OH  43227
 
**** Any opinions are that of the author, and NOT of AT&T ****
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 02:35:27 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ira.uka
 .de!math.fu-berlin.de!fub!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@arizona.edu (Techno)
Subject: UUPC Program wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Try Rodney's UUCP modules (called Mercury).
 
                              Techno
 
--
| techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! |
| techno@lime.in-berlin.de   / | \ Hardcore ST user !  ====================== |
| Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. |
|                                        (Al Stewart)                         |
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 24 Jun 91 10:50:00 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!star.cs.vu.nl!hvaalde@uunet.uu.net (Aalderen van Harold)
Subject: What do I need to use gcc/g++
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I want to install the gcc, g++ binaries on my atari but I am a bit
confused what programs I need. When I look at the gnustuff at a.a
I will find archives with names in it that cannot be used in a Atari
with TOS file system (to long, to many points in it)
 
So could anyone tell me how to setup my system so I can use the gnustuff
and what files to download from a.a?
I have a 1040STf with TOS 1.0, 1 Mb and enough diskspace or
a Mega 4 with TOS 1.4 and enough diskspace
 
I do not want to have the sources just the binaries
 
 
Harold van Aalderen (hvaalde@cs.vu.nl)
 
P.S. does anyone now an other C++ compiler for the atari ST?
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
