Info-Atari16 Digest         Thu, 15 Aug 91       Volume 91 : Issue 431
 
Today's Topics:
                 Anonymous FTP of The Vault in Europe
                   archive-server:  HELP ! (2 msgs)
                Are they released yet?  How are they?
                     Best place to buy DynaCADD?
                          DC Weekly Post 8/9
                             Dialog Boxes
                Fix bugs to fix bugs, or to Fix Bugs?
                      Hardware goodies in US???
                                HiSoft
                     How to bind gulam keys in ue
                           Minix question..
                     Multi V1.0 - Midi Sequencer
                power conditioning (was Re: BLACKOUTS)
                         ST-USER July Wanted
                   TOS (GEM) file selector windows
      TOS (GEM) file selector windows [FSEL wrapper source code]
                   what I think about GEM (2 msgs)
                      Which archiver ? (Was: use
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 08:53:54 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!horga!agsc!krokus!jlinz@uunet.uu.net (Jochen Linz)
Subject: Anonymous FTP of The Vault in Europe
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In <1991Aug7.144445.3006@cs.yale.edu>, Robert Fischer writes:
>are available via ftp in europe under anonymous account by the
>University of Koeln/Germany. The numeric ftp-adress is
 [stuff deleted..]
 
 hello robert,
 
 we have just test your new version 3.0 of The Vault.
 
 THERE is still the same bug as in your old versions :
 
 Try to use a deep path, like more than 50 Characters in the GEM-Input-Line,
 The Vault will crash, overwriting his own memory, asks for disc-changes
 and then bombs... ugghh 8-(
 
 An other little bug is this one :
 
 If there is a file with a name "        .   " (you see, a blank name),
 than The Vault don't abort with an errormessage, but try go on with
 backuping. BUT don't really backups the files !
 
 Hope that helps !
 
 PS: I've heard, you sold your ATARI ST. Is that true ?
     Who will support your really good program ?(sources avaible ?)
 
 cu Jochen (not the FRITZ, but a FRANZ !)
 
 Hope, my bad english will be understood...
 --
 
 
Jochen Linz, Henckellweg 7, W-3000 Hannover 91, Germany - Voice: +49 511 417407
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 20:25:34 GMT
From: rti!mozart!snoret@mcnc.org (Rick Tatem)
Subject: archive-server:  HELP !
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I am rather a novice to the net, so I figure I'd ask
a (hopefully) simple question and save myself hours
of frustration and heartache.  Here we go:
 
All I'm trying to do is get some of the binaries
from the archive-server@twitterpater.eng.sun.com.
I mailed a request on Monday, and still have not
received the uuencoded reply.  Now, before you all
tell me just to be patient... yesterday I decided
to request the help file and the index.  I
received them both the same day I requested them!
 
My question is this... does the server naturally
send help and index requests BEFORE files, or is
there something wrong with my syntax.  I thought
I was doing it just the way the help file said:
 
send binaries/volume1 arc
 
Notice I remembered to replace the last "/" with
a space.  Please tell me I not crazy ( well, ok...
maybe just a little :)
 
Rick Tatem             snoret@unx.sas.com
UNIX Support
SAS Institute, Inc.
--
Rick Tatem                                    __-__               _
snoret@unx.sas.com            =========@  ============       *#__===___
UNIX Support                     ___\\____ /  /_  `'
SAS Institute, Inc.              \______________{           @*          @
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 21:54:58 GMT
From: @uunet.uu.net (John Miskinis)
Subject: archive-server:  HELP !
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
>send binaries/volume1 arc
 
Is "arc" a valid filename?  (I don't have the index handy)
 
It seems (from memory) you must specify the full name and extension...
 
_John_  (Who came in at 5:00 AM, it's 6:00 P.M. and I'm ALMOST done!)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 21:43:50 GMT
From: cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa399@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Len Stys)
Subject: Are they released yet?  How are they?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I'm curious to know if the ST Notebook, ST Pad, CDAR505, and the TT/030
Unix and Developer package are available anywhere in the world?
 
Have any developers got them yet?
 
Also, has anyone heard anything about a new video card for the TT to
compete with the VideoToaster?
 
If you have, I'd be interested to know what you've heard either on this
newsgroup or through e-mail.
 
Thanks.
 
Len
 
 
--
 
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 06:11:24 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!tdrga@arizona.edu
 (Todd Drga)
Subject: Best place to buy DynaCADD?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I wonder how many people actually use DynaCADD out there... but for those
who do, I have a question:
 
Where is the best (cheapest) place to buy it?  I have checked with a couple
of mail-order places, but they indicated that it was a 'special-order' item
and quoted me a special-order price (about $750)
 
Is there any place that sells it cheaper?  I remember a while ago there was a
person who started a, for lack of a better term, 'network mail order'
mailing list of software and hardware that could be ordered by e-mail.
I was on that list and got the first mail message with some pretty good
prices, but have lost that message and haven't heard anything else from the
person.  If you have any info about this, please mail me.
 
Please mail any suggestions or recommendations to me.  I will summarize
when I return from my trip to Europe.
 
Thanks,
 
Todd Drga
 
--
=  INTERNET-> tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   (Todd Drga, UT Dept. of Drama)      =
=                                                                            =
=          ' The dry grass will set fire to the damp grass '                 =
=                                                                            =
=           African proverb brought to the Americas by slaves                =
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 22:18:01 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.e
 du!uace0@arizona.edu (ATARI Computer Enthusiasts)
Subject: DC Weekly Post 8/9
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
DC Mouse Saver will turn the mouse cursor off after a defined time
of no mouse activity and turn the mouse cursor back on with any mouse
activity.  'A third generation Homey' - read docs  :-)
 
100% assembly.  ST, STe and TT compatible.  Program of the week.
 
- mike vederman / double click software
 
See you in Duesseldorf!
 
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Double Click Me | Double Click Software | P.O. Box 741206 | Houston, Tx, 77274
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voice: (713)977-6520 | DC DESKTOP | DC FORMATTER | DC UTILITIES | and others
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 12:22:08 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!atha!lsuc!jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim
 Omura)
Subject: Dialog Boxes
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <3231@cod.NOSC.MIL> healy@cod.NOSC.MIL (Mike Healy) writes:
>Let me quote from my Laser C (version 1.01) docs (and probably start a
>new flame thread):
>
>       "The GEM desktop program opens a workstation for the screen using
>       raster coordinates.  GEM can only have one workstation open for a
>       particular device at a time,  and since the desktop program is
>       always run before user applications,  there is no way for an
>       application program to open a workstation on the ST.  It can
>       however [sic] open a virtual workstation that inherits the
>       device specific information from the currently open workstation."
>
>       Laser C version 1.01 manual,  p. 307
 
 
     So that would mean that "v_opnwk()" in Lattice C is an entirely
bogus command!  Neato! :-)
 
Conclusion #1:  We need some new books put out on GEM/TOS programming.
Hopefully, some of those books will be the manuals that come with
these compilers.
 
Conclusion #2:  (Ahem.  I have another conclusion but I think I will
not currently state it in public. :-)
 
Supposition:  "v_opnwk()" is probably necessary for some GDOS commands.
Probably I'll find this out if I ever actually use a GDOS related command.
That's fair enough.  In the mean time, I won't worry about it and I
won't use it.
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 00:55:24 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!portal!atari!kbad@arizona.edu (Ken
 Badertscher)
Subject: Fix bugs to fix bugs, or to Fix Bugs?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen) writes:
 
|[...] it seems that the system code performs the "cd .." command
|by stripping *one* directory from the current path.  However,
|the used algorithm doesn't make sense [if relative paths are passed in].
 
|    Should one only supply full pathnames to the file selector,
|    or should the described behaviour be considered a bug?
 
I think this is a case of "Doc, it hurts when I do this..." As Allan
has said, if the file selector misbehaves when you pass it a relative
filename, don't pass relative filenames to the file selector. It
bothers me when I see programs doing this, because what does "." mean
when a program brings up a file selector?  For all I know, the program
could change directories numerous times for its own devious purposes.
How the heck do I know what its idea of the current directory is?
 
Please use fully qualified pathnames in the file selector.  I know that
means you can't go very deep, but that's life on one line of a 40
column screen.
 
 
hofer@urz.unibas.ch (Remo Hofer) writes:
 
|Wouldn't this be an idea for a dc week utility. A TSR that parses all pathnames
|before calling the system routine. So these commercial applications will not
|cause problems to anyone.
 
I'd like to echo Allan's sentiments on this one, too... fixing "bugs"
for no other reason than to allow buggy programs to run is A Bad Idea.
 
Believe it or not, I may even be more rabid about this issue than Allan.
I think Atari should do everything in its power to discourage lazy
programming.  Our goal should be able to point at programs available on
our computers and show how easy they are to use, and how robust they are.
We shouldn't be required to apologize for the number of auto folder
programs that you need to patch various bugs/features/whatevers so that
programs X.PRG, Y.APP and Z.PRG can all coexist peacefully.
 
I think people who write little TSR helper programs shouldn't waste
their time writing auto folder patches that let DB Master One run
under TOS 6.7.  They should spend their time enhancing the utility
of TOS machines, so we move forward.
 
--
   |||   Ken Badertscher  (ames!atari!kbad)
   |||   Atari R&D System Software Engine
  / | \  #include <disclaimer>
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 00:17:29 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!rj
 ast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: Hardware goodies in US???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug09.035522.8432@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us
 (Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>We've already established that there are some nice goodies being made for the
>ST.  But does anyone sell these things in the US?  In particular: memory
>expansion of the ST beyond 4 M, and network hardware that permits the ST to
>be on the same network with 'more popular machines'.
>                                    Steve     saj@chinet.chi.il.us
 
 
  I believe the soon-to-be-released (Dave?) 68030 upgrade from Gadgets by
Small will let you crank it up to 12megs RAM, I believe.
 
  As for networking, you might check out some information on "Universal
Network", a kinda offshoot of the Universal Item selector.  I dunno if
it works in conjunction with other systems on a net, but its worth
 look into,anyways...
 
                                                Robert Anisko
                                                rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 10:40:16 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!dcl-cs!gdt!brispoly!as_radfo@uunet.uu.net (Arthur Radford Ext
 2743)
Subject: HiSoft
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug7.205102.27984@news.cs.indiana.edu> pwp@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
 (Paul Purdom) writes:
>Can someone send me an address for HiSoft in England (or a US address if
>they have one)? Does anyone know of a better place to obtain the latest
>version of Personal Pascal?
 
I didn't even know until you mentioned it that they had Personal Pascal
on their list!  And I've been wondering where to find it.
 
However, a full-page advert in the July issue of ST Applications informs that:
 
'HighSpeed Pascal - comes from Denmark - extremely fast and friendly -
closely compatible to ... Turbo Pascal, even including the graphics unit
from the PC - compilation speed 
code generation for the St and TT.
 
Price:  UK pounds 89.95.
Existing Personal Pascal users can upgrade at a reduced price.'
 
Today's tourist rate is about $1.66/pound => 
 
HiSoft is at:  The Old School
               Greenfield
               BEDFORD
               MK45 5DE
               U.K.
 
Any help?
--
--
Arthur Radford, Bristol Polytechnic
BRISTOL, BS16 1QY, UK
as_radfo@uk.ac.brispoly.g2
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 19:37:59 GMT
From: ftpbox!mothost!motcid!zafiris@uunet.uu.net (John Zafiris)
Subject: How to bind gulam keys in ue
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I have beta-test version 1.03.04.05 121887 of the gulam shell and want
to redefine the key mappings for the emacs editor.  I tried kb -r xxx yy
but that does not seem to work and sometimes even messes up the rest of
the keys so, for example, keys a, b, and c become NOPs and don't work any
more.  Is there anything special that has to be done?  The command:
uekb xxx yy worked just fine for the alpha-test version I used before.
 
What am I doing wrong?  Thanks for any clues...             ...John
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 11:03:31 GMT
From: netcomsv!yonder@decwrl.dec.com (Christopher Russell)
Subject: Minix question..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I've been strongly considering getting Minix (I sure wish it was a little
cheaper -- does anybody know of a souce besides direct to Prentice Hall?)
 
My question is:  Which version is better, the MAC or ST version?  The
reason I ask is becuase I have a Spectre so I could run the MAC version.
If they are pretty much the same, it would seem ST would be superior
because I wouldn't have to run it under emulation.  Also, I have read that
the Amiga and ST binaries are compatible (under Minix) does anyone know if
this is true for MAC as well?
 
Well, any help in the area would be great.. Thanx...
 
P.S. I don't suppose somebody has a copy of Minix they would like to sell,
c'mon now, there's gotta be somebody out there who has it sitting around
collecting dust....
 
 
--
Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy)  Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA
yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 10 Aug 91 04:21:07 GMT
From:
 arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!
 alberta!herald.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umhagma1@arizona.edu (Dr.
 Phrancinstyne)
Subject: Multi V1.0 - Midi Sequencer
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Has anyone looked at this fine piece of software yet?  It apparently came out
just about a half a year ago (I think).  How do you think it rates to other
packages?  Alchimie *was* a nice sequencer (mainly because shareware).  But
when you want REAL support, I guess you got to pay a few more bucks (I figure).
 
It's retail price up here (BRRRRRR...<-what a joke) Winnipeg, Manitoba (Canada
for those of you who don't know), is around a whopping $495.00 (CAN).
Anyone else have any prices?
 
Thanks for any info. (or any corrections)
 
Brett Hagman
Student Computer Engineer
University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 5 Aug 91 18:08:10 GMT
From: hpda!hpcuhb!hpindda!goo@hplabs.hp.com (Michael Goo)
Subject: power conditioning (was Re: BLACKOUTS)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Speaking of blackouts and plug pulling:
 
How is using a switched power strip on a hard drive different from using
the drive's on off switch.  Is one method more healthy for the drive?  Hmmmm..
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 14:05:11 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpmcaa!patrick@arizona.edu
 (Patrick Hawke)
Subject: ST-USER July Wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Do you have an July Issue of ST-USER  you don't want?
 
Looking for July Issue of ST-USER.
 
Contatc Me if you have one to part with.
 
Thanks,
     ___
    /__/  ___
   /atrick /
        <_/ames/__/
              /  /awke
 
patrick@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 18:52:33 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!usc!apple!portal!atari!apratt@arizona.edu
 (Allan Pratt)
Subject: TOS (GEM) file selector windows
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen) writes:
>I noticed that when giving a relative path to the file selector
>of the Atari STe it's impossible to do more "cd .."'s (using the close
>box of the window) than the directory where the relative path started.
>This has to do with the way the system figures out the parent directory.
 
It has to do with what the file selector does when you hit the close box.
It parses the path string and cuts off one level of subdirectory.  This is
strictly string manipulation, having nothing to do with low-level
filesystem notions like parent directory.  I believe the file selector must
be given a string which starts with a drive letter and a backslash (i.e. a
full path), or the close box will eventually get you to an invalid path and
goodness knows what will happen.
 
============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily     -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else.      ...ames!atari!apratt
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 18:57:07 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!portal!at
 ari!apratt@arizona.edu (Allan Pratt)
Subject: TOS (GEM) file selector windows [FSEL wrapper source code]
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
>> [In article <1991Aug8.141851.6114@wam.umd.edu>,
>>      dmb@wam.umd.edu (David M. Baggett) writes ... ]
>>
>>  > ... To solve this, I wrote a wrapper for
>>  > the file selector that expands an initial . in a pathname to the
>>  > complete specification for the current working directory.  I.e.,
>>  > ".\*.c" -> "d:\usr\src\*.c".
 
>In article <A1536431880@thelake.mn.org>, steve@thelake.mn.org
>(Steve Yelvington) writes:
>> This is a good thing to do, and thanks for the code. I've had problems
>> with some commercial applications (including PageStream) used across
>> multiple hard drive partitions because the application didn't pass a
>> full and proper path mask to the fsel.
 
hofer@urz.unibas.ch (Remo Hofer) writes:
 
>Wouldn't this be an idea for a dc week utility. A TSR that parses all
>pathnames before calling the system routine. So these commercial
>applications will not cause problems to anyone.
>But the TSR should really be tiny. Else we could use a extended file
>selector as well. Or is it a challenge for Lars-Erik Osterud to
>write the smallest path parser in the st world. The best way for
>sure would be, that the people at atari would change the fileselector
>to do this stuff. Or does TOS 3.xx already expand paths in the fileselector?
 
Actually, the best way for sure would be for the people who wrote these
commercial applications not to ship buggy code.  The file selector does not
properly parse relative paths (as has been pointed out here) and as such
passing a relative path to the file selector is Not A Good Thing To Do.
Writing a TSR to fix buggy programs might not be a bad idea, but not
shipping buggy programs (or "programs which trigger user-interface oddities
in the operating system" if you prefer) is a better one.
 
============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily     -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else.      ...ames!atari!apratt
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 19:19:18 GMT
From: world!azog@uunet.uu.net (azog-thoth)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <11893@m.maus.de> Martin_Gaeckler@m.maus.de (Martin Gaeckler) writes:
>
>>Yea, but even so, its still rather clumsy. Think about the work needed to
>>copy a file from your floppy to the hard drive. The above is needed, because
>>(usually), you cant open a window onto the floppy. You could create a
>>folder called Floppy, and use Preferences to set path to A:, but thats
>>still awfully clumsy. And why press a keyboard key when using a mouse?
>>Isnt that the point of a GUI? Windows may be prettier than GEM, but
>>its _real_ easy to get things done, IMHO
>
>No, i'm sorry you are wrong. Coping a file from a floppy disk to the hard
>disk is the same procedure as you would do with the GEM-Desktop. But If You
>want to copy a file to an empty disk you can't open a window of that disk,
>therefore, you have to drag the file to the disk icon of your floppy disk.
>Then you can open a window.
>
>Martin
 
(the above is opinions about Microsoft Windows 3.0 vs. GEM)
 
But Windows doesnt have drive icons, the same as GEM.
 
GEM: to copy from floppy to HD:
 
Click on the hard drive icon, and open it up to the path. The open the
floppy, and drag the icon from floppy to hard drive.
 
Windows:
 
Open the file manager. After it scans the whole hard drive, open drive
a. Choose COPY under the menu FILE menu bar, and TYPE in the path
 
Which is easier?
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 9 Aug 91 23:22:42 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!ros
 enkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: what I think about GEM
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Aug9.191918.24547@world.std.com> azog@world.std.com (azog-thoth)
 writes:
 
[ describes GEM vs windows moving/copying files then asks: ]
 
>Which is easier?
 
cp filename(s) path       or
mv filename(s) path       or (recursive)
cp -r directory(ies) path
 
:-)  :-)
 
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
(and it is portable!)
--
Bill Rosenkranz            |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp.      |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Aug 91 12:47:00 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia
 .edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!hh.maus.de!Thomas_Quester@ariz
 ona.edu (Thomas Quester)
Subject: Which archiver ? (Was: use
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
ue>LHa 2.00 for about a month, the current version is 2.01b. I'll post it
ue>to comp.binaries.atari.st, if I manage to find that printout of "Welcome to
ue>comp.sys.atari.st" here in this chaos named flat. ;-)
 
Stop it! The 2.01c is out!
 
----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Quester  *  Lampenland 9  *  2050 Hamburg 80
 
Der kleine Mann braucht keinen Krieg. Er stirbt auch von alleine.
(Net)
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
*****************************
