Info-Atari16 Digest         Sun,  8 Dec 91       Volume 91 : Issue 645
 
Today's Topics:
                             Atari Spirit
           Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (2 msgs)
                       CDAR-504 and IBM/Mac CDs
                                 Code
                             ST on stage
                              TT prices
                   Was : TT prices Now: Religions!!
             Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product (3 msgs)
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 08:06:36 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.mont
 ana.edu!milton!mpark@arizona.edu (Michael Park)
Subject: Atari Spirit
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <91341.145708JJMCWILL@MTUS5.BITNET> JJMCWILL@MTUS5.BITNET (Jeff
 McWilliams) writes:
>
>The self destruct program appeared in an April issue of Analog
>a while back, and was meant as an April fool's joke.  It did look great
>though.  A few issues after that, angry people sent in letters asking why
>anyone would ruin their atari like this, it didn't actually do anything
>to the computer, turn it off and on again and it worked fine!
>
>
>Jeff McWilliams
>JJMCWILL@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
>GEnie:  J.MCWILLIAM3
>"Atari 8-bit die hards never run out of power"
 
Can anybody explain how that self-destruct program worked?
 
--
Ciao-abunga!           +-------------------------------------+
Michael Park           | This space intentionally left blank |
mpark@u.washington.edu +-------------------------------------+
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 05:45:50 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!th
 ink.com!rpi!borres@arizona.edu (Steven D. Borrelli)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Dec7.152705.20429@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jppg9764@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 (John Paul Pietrzak) writes:
>>>I think Atari can compete successfully with people who prefer an even
>>>lower-priced Unix workstation than NeXT offers.
>>
>>I don't think so.  Atari has no machine that has the performance.  Don't
>>forget UNIX itself will cost money.
>
>Depends on whether Atari decides to act like a workstation company or
>a PC company.  IBM and Apple sell Unix; Sun, NeXT, DEC, HP, etc. give
>it away free with the box.  And with respect to performance, I've spent
>most of the last three years working on 68020 Unix boxes (Sun 3/60s).
>They're manageable under X windows.
>
>John "I'll probably end up just saving my money anyway" Pietrzak
 
I think that Atari should think carefully about entering the UNIX
market, which is starting to get competitive. UNIX of ome form is
already available on Mac, Amigas, and PC's, and those systems are
really challenged by the likes of SUN and NeXT. Atari needs something
to make it's UNIX machine special, or it won't do very well, (Like the
Amiga Unix configuartion.)
 
Of course, you could reverse my logic and say that Atari needs to come out
with one if it expects to compete with everyone else. Then again, what do I
know?
 
--
Steven D. Borrelli
Rensselear Polytechnic Institute '92
borres@rpi.edu  (NeXTmail accepted)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 12:48:37 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard
 Covert)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1mtq-nm@rpi.edu> borres@aix.rpi.edu (Steven D. Borrelli) writes:
>In article <1991Dec7.152705.20429@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jppg9764@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 (John Paul Pietrzak) writes:
>>>>I think Atari can compete successfully with people who prefer an even
>>>>lower-priced Unix workstation than NeXT offers.
>>>
>>>I don't think so.  Atari has no machine that has the performance.  Don't
>>>forget UNIX itself will cost money.
>>
>>Depends on whether Atari decides to act like a workstation company or
>>a PC company.  IBM and Apple sell Unix; Sun, NeXT, DEC, HP, etc. give
>>it away free with the box.  And with respect to performance, I've spent
>>most of the last three years working on 68020 Unix boxes (Sun 3/60s).
>>They're manageable under X windows.
>>
>>John "I'll probably end up just saving my money anyway" Pietrzak
>
>I think that Atari should think carefully about entering the UNIX
>market, which is starting to get competitive. UNIX of ome form is
>already available on Mac, Amigas, and PC's, and those systems are
>really challenged by the likes of SUN and NeXT. Atari needs something
>to make it's UNIX machine special, or it won't do very well, (Like the
                           ~~~~~~~
 
>Amiga Unix configuartion.)
>
>Of course, you could reverse my logic and say that Atari needs to come out
>with one if it expects to compete with everyone else. Then again, what do I
>know?
>
>--
>Steven D. Borrelli
>Rensselear Polytechnic Institute '92
>borres@rpi.edu  (NeXTmail accepted)
 
Steven has made a point that I have been trying to make for some
time now. The Atari TT/ASV has to be very "special" in order to
overcome Atari's other problems here.
 
First, if people have even heard of Atari they think of the old
arcade/video games. But even in the video/computer gamiing market
Atari has taken a bath lately. So, most people will not have evn
heard of Atari. Much less as a serious computer maker. Name recognition
is everything here in America. you can't sell a computer or become
President w/o name recognition!!
 
Second, for the same dollars can you buy someone else's UNIX box.
Since you can't run TOS/GEM programs from within an X Windows
window, owning previous GEM programs is no reason to buy a TT/ASV.
As far as all of the other PD programs circulating on USENET,
most require either Sun Open Look or Motif. And hence can be recompiled
and run on almost any other X Window machine. You don't need the TT/ASV
to run the GNU sw. In fact, a NextStation or a Sun SPARC workstation
is more powerful then the TT/ASV and offers more compatible with the
existing GNU sw?
 
Why are these other machine more compatible? Simply because they have been
out longer then ASV. ASV is still in the post-beta "developer" stage
so there are fewer ASV users. Thus fewer GNU programs have been
ported to it. Thus, the compatibility factor is still largely unknown.
You can't say how compatible ASV is with MOTIF/Sun Open Look/GNU
sw until you get a released ASV to use. And ASV still hassn't been
released as a commerical, off the shelf, product!!
 
So, just why is the TT/ASV "special" enough to buy? Well, folks
seem to think that it is cheaper in dollars. Well, in this case,
you get what you pay for. As immature as the TT/ASV market is
just buying peripherals can be a challenge.
 
Also, other people have questioned my concerns over adding
third party peripherals to the TT/ASV. They seem to think that
just because a device is a SCSI device it will run on the TT/ASV.
Well, electrically and hardware wise it should attach to the TT
just fine. But what about the ASV's SCSI device driver? Can the
released drivers in the ASV kernal handle any or all third party
SCSI devices? Can it handle any make or brand of WORM drive?
Can it handle the Sony 5.25 SMO optical read/write drive? Or the
newer Sony 3.5 SMO optical drive? Or the new Digital Audio Tape
1.3/2.2 GIGABYTE tape drives? It would seem to me that even though
these are all SCSI devices, special ASV device drivers would be
required for each. and then the question becomes, who is going
to provide these device drivers? Heck, companies such as Word Perfect
are refusing to upgrade their existing ST/TT products even now. Do
you think that they will go out of their way to write ASV unique
device drivers? I think not!! Can an ordinary ASV developer
write his own drivers? Well, if the kernal is like most AT&T
kernals you have to rebuild the entire kernal to add new device
drivers. Hence you need source code to the entire ASV kernal,
which I don't think AT&T would Atari Corp to give out for free!!
AT&T source code licenses can cost upwards of $50,000.00 USA$!!
 
 
So, for all of these reasons I don't believe that the TT/ASV is
"special" enough to survive. In fact, I predict now, for one
and all to read, that the TT/ASV will NEVER been released as
more then a "Developer" package for the present incarnation of
the TT hardware. Maybe in 1993 or 1994 when the rumored 68040
super-TT comes out it will be released. But not for the present
TT hardware.
 
these are just my views. I for one would love to buy a TT/ASV
because I really need/want a good Motif based X Windows workstation.
But I want color and I want support. Neither of which Atari can
provide. I plan to wait until Spring when the next version of
A/UX comes out. A/UX 2.01 doesn't run on the new Mac Quadra 700
machines (see even Apple makes blunders!!). But A/UX version 3.0
will fix that. And A/UX supports color as well as ll of the normal
Mac peripherals. We shall see.
 
 
--
Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 15:06:54 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!lina
 c!att!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!hojo@arizona.edu (HC Johnson)
Subject: CDAR-504 and IBM/Mac CDs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Dec6.200332.16859@watmath.waterloo.edu>,
 daroloso@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dani A. Roloson) writes:
>
> Has anyone used a CDAR-504 to read IBM or Mac CD's?
>
> I am hoping that I can just get a CD of IBM/Mac EPS clip-art,
> put it into the CDAR-504, and import directly into PageStream 2.1.
> Is it that simple?
>
 
I have a CDAR504.  It will read the MS/DOS CD formats ok.
 
You have to consider the following.
 
1. There is only 1 physical CD standard.  In a sense you can read any CD
   BUT
2. there is a logical standard that ATARI 'screwed up'.  A CD can contain
   many sections that may be music, data, and on big CD's, video.
3. The CDAR504 will only read the FIRST section.
   SO
4. you can PLAY (not READ) a music video. OR
5. read s single section data CD.  of these there are several standards.
 
Bottom line.
 
1. I can read the PC CD-ROMS.
2. I can read the hypertext introduction to a MAC CD-ROM, but not access
  the next section.
 
3. Also, there are two popular ways of doing PC CD-ROMS.
  a. First, the CD-ROM is all "data", and you get a floppy with the access
        program  written in the native language that it is sold for.
        Of, course , this usually means MS/DOS on a PC.
  b. Second, the CD-ROM contains the access programs and the data.
4. This leaves the Atari out in the cold.
 
5. What I did was hack a CD-rom driver into PC-Ditto I, and run as a real
  (but slow) PC.  Since PC_ditto-I has CGA only, this handles text based
   CD-roms quite well.
  Data bases like "Computer library" work well.
 
 
 
Howard Johnson
ATT BELL LABS
att!mtgzy!hcj
hcj@mtgzy.att.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 7 Dec 91 12:56:30 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!hp4nl!hgatenl!tedux!alice.hobby.nl!harold@uunet.uu.net
 (Harold van Aalderen)
Subject: Code
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In <690996425.4@tdkt.kksys>, you write:
>
>Does anyone have any code for reading either GEMDOS 44 or  XBIOS 23
>they could share with me?
 
This small program should help.
I use it in my auto folder since
I don't have a battery backed clock. With this program I only have to set
the time when I switch on the computer after a reset the program ensures
that GEMDOS and keyboard clock are running synchronic.
--------- cut here ---------
/*
 * This program is made by  H. E. v. Aalderen from the Netherlands.
 * You are free to use it or parts of it except for commercial activities.
 * At al times you must mention the original author.
 *
 * Copyright (c) 1989 by H. E. v. Aalderen
 *
 * Compiled under TurboC versie 1.1
 */
 
/* creation date : 13/2/90
 * Version       : 1.0
 * Purpose       : set date and time automaticly
 *
 */
 
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <tos.h>
#include <time.h>
 
 
#define _SYSBASE        ((SYSHDR **)0x4f2)
 
void    askdatetime(void);
 
 
void
main(void)
{
        struct tm       *dattime;
        time_t          now;
        char            datim[160];
        SYSHDR          *_sysbase;
        int             date;
        long            ssp;
 
        ssp = Super(NULL);
        _sysbase = *_SYSBASE;
        Super((void *)ssp);
        date = (int)(Gettime()>>16);
 
#ifdef DEBUG
        printf("\n\nGettime:\t%08x\nramdos:\t%08x\n",date,_sysbase->os_gendatg);
        Cnecin();
#endif
        if ( (date != 0x6000) &&
             (date != _sysbase->os_gendatg)
           )
        {
                Tsettime((unsigned)(Gettime() & 0xFFFF));
                Tsetdate((unsigned)(date));
        }
        else
        {
                printf("\33E");
                now = time(NULL);
                dattime = localtime(&now);
                strftime(datim,sizeof(datim),"Huidige tijd: %a %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S",dattime);
                puts(datim);
                askdatetime();
        }
        now = time(NULL);
        dattime = localtime(&now);
        strftime(datim,sizeof(datim),"\n\nTime and date set to:\n\n%a %d %B %Y
 %X\n",dattime);
        puts(datim);
}
 
 
void
askdatetime(void)
{
        unsigned int dum1,dum2,dum3;
        unsigned int _date, _time;
 
        do
        {
                printf("\7\n\tGive date (yy/mm/dd): ");
                scanf("%u/%u/%u\n",&dum1,&dum2,&dum3);
                _date = (((dum1-80))<<9) | ((dum2)<<5) | (dum3);
        }
        while ( (int)Tsetdate(_date) < 0);
        _date = Tgetdate();
        dum1 = dum2 = dum3 = 0;
        do
        {
                printf("\7\n\tGive time (hh/mm/ss): ");
                scanf("%u/%u/%u\n",&dum1,&dum2,&dum3);
                _time = (dum3/2) | (dum2<<5) | (dum1<<11);
        }
        while ((int)Tsettime(_time) < 0);
        _time = Tgettime();
        Settime( ((unsigned long)(_date)<<16) | (unsigned long)_time );
}
--
Harold van Aalderen |  harold@alice.hobby.nl
                    |  {...!mcsun}!hp4nl!hgatenl!tedux!alice!harold
alice: She's not the neighbour girl nor is she living in wonderland
       Who it is? For me to know for you to guess.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 03:27:49 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!
 yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!ndsuvm1!mtus5!jjmcwill@arizona.edu (Jeff
 McWilliams)
Subject: ST on stage
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
NNGET
In article <1991Dec05.221003.12514@demon.co.uk>, ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Iain Laskey) says:
>
>You should go and see a Jean Michel Jarre concert. Wall to wall Mega ST's!
>The ST is the machine of choice amongst the music community with many
>appearin-
>g
>on stage. Tangerine Dream even mention Atari and some Atari people on their
WOW, Jean Michael Jarre uses ST's?  Neato, I always liked his 'music'.
 
 
 
 
>album sleeves.
>
>I know a great many people in bands and ALL ue Atari's and either Notator or
>Cubase for sequencing.
>
>###############################
># Iain R Laskey               #
># ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk #
>###############################
 
 
 
Jeff McWilliams
JJMCWILL@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
GEnie:  J.MCWILLIAM3
"Atari 8-bit die hards never run out of power"
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 05:54:45 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!rpi!borres@arizon
 a.edu (Steven D. Borrelli)
Subject: TT prices
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
>So, my point is why would an American spend $6,000USA on a TT with
>UNIX when that is the same price as a Sparc Clone? And with a Sparc
>clone you have access to ALL of the Sun commerical software!!
>Also, if you write a program for the Sparc you might just make some
>money !! But the entire Atari market, for ALL previously sold
>STs,STes, and TTs is smaller then the Sun Sparc market now!! So,
>write sw for the TT/ASV and don't make any money. Write it for the
>Sparc and you might get rich!!
>
>Nobody is beating down my door asking me to write software for the
>Atari TT!! But there are plenty of jobs out there for good sharp
>Sun programmers!!
>
>And $6,000 is too much to pay for a toy, home hobby computer!!
>The STe is more then adequate for playing games with!!
>
>--
>Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
Richard, I din't think that any UNIX system could be limited to a
toy computer. I may be naive, but it seems that there is a lot of
software that is readily availible to UNIX and X users on
any platfrom.
 
As for spending, $6000, I'd rather get a NeXT and not have to deal
with X or Openlook. But I'm sure that's a religious issue.
 
 
--
Steven D. Borrelli
Rensselear Polytechnic Institute '92
borres@rpi.edu  (NeXTmail accepted)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 12:56:33 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu
 (Richard Covert)
Subject: Was : TT prices Now: Religions!!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <0mtqbrm@rpi.edu> borres@aix.rpi.edu (Steven D. Borrelli) writes:
>>Nobody is beating down my door asking me to write software for the
>>Atari TT!! But there are plenty of jobs out there for good sharp
>>Sun programmers!!
>>
>>And $6,000 is too much to pay for a toy, home hobby computer!!
>>The STe is more then adequate for playing games with!!
>>
>>--
>>Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
>>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
>
>Richard, I din't think that any UNIX system could be limited to a
>toy computer. I may be naive, but it seems that there is a lot of
>software that is readily availible to UNIX and X users on
>any platfrom.
>
>As for spending, $6000, I'd rather get a NeXT and not have to deal
>with X or Openlook. But I'm sure that's a religious issue.
>Steven D. Borrelli
 
Steven made a very valid point. It is almost becoming a religous
belief as to which Desktop of Graphical User Interface is best.
 
I prefer Motif simply becuase there are more jobs out there in the
real world for MOTIF programmers then there are for Next programmers.
The Next environment is probably technically a better environment
then MOTIF based dekstops, but the real world is using MOTIF and
thus that's what I need also. Something like buying a PC clone and
then holding your nose while you use it!! You gotta have one to
compete in the market but that doesn't mean you have to like it!!
 
And the Atari TT/ASV with MOTIF could have a nice market niche
but first Atari has to change their previous marketing and
distribution problems. Which taint likely to happen in this
century!!
 
 
--
Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 06:16:38 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu
 (Richard Covert)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Dec7.155459.21883@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jppg9764@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 (John Paul Pietrzak) writes:
>In article <9999@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>Hmm, I wonder just how much ram/HD space you get with that IIci you just
>bought, considering that Apple still has about 4 meg of ram and 80 meg
>HD standard, whereas you have on the TT that 20 megs of ram you bought,
>along with the 200 meg HD that ASV came on.  I get the feeling that
>ASV will be running more comfortably than A/UX in this situation...
 
You can add upto 30 megs of RAM to the Mac IIci just by adding the SIMM
chips. This is unlike the TT which requires an expensive memory board
made only by Atari to add memory. And just what is the upper limit to
hard disk space for the TT? On the ST you can have only 32 Megs x
14 partitions. But I guess you wouldn't have such a limitation under
ASV anyway.
 
>
>>So, yes, not being able to run TOS/GEM programs from within ASV is a serious
>>drawback. Especially since you won't see anything to replace
>>PageStream or Calumus under ASV for the forseeable future.
>
>Hmm, perhaps you could get by with TeX?  GhostScript?  PSfig?  Nroff/troff/
>eqn/tbl/etc. ?  Although not nearly as nice and graphical as PageStream
>or Calamus, they can get the job done.  And, you can always boot the
>machine up in TOS mode if you really need to.
>
>John "Don't sneeze at Unix (ah.. Ah.. AH-CHOOO :)" Pietrzak
But John you don't have to buy a TT to run these programs. Buy any
80386/80486 and add Dell's UNIX or SCO Xenix and you can run these
programs. Or buy a SPARC or a Mac with A/UX. the presence of these
programs on the TT/ASV does not justify buying the TT/ASV system!!
 
 
 
Its funny how people can accept the unacceptable whenever it comes to
Atari computers. I mean, if someone said that the ONLY sw availab;e
for a specific computer was some obscure PD stuff, would you rush
out to buy that computer? Especially when the computer costs as much
as other computers which have thousands of commerically supported
sw packages for them? Well, it appears that Atarians are so loyal
as to do just that!! An example is the way Americans buy the German
version of Turbo C. For which other could someone sell a German
only compiler for almost $300!! No one but Die Hard Atarians are
willing to pay so much for so little!!
 
 
--
Richard E. Covert                 covert@cactus.org
CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 08:20:21 GMT
From: amdcad!netcomsv!dsmythe@sun.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <10014@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>Its funny how people can accept the unacceptable whenever it comes to
>Atari computers. I mean, if someone said that the ONLY sw availab;e
>for a specific computer was some obscure PD stuff, would you rush
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>out to buy that computer?
 
Actually, I have a real aversion to commercial software.  You have all of
the headaches of non-commercial software, plus a high price tag and bad
support (fixes, not hand-holding).  I have an SCO ODT system.  I routinely
report compiler bugs, OS bugs, etc.  Some of the simplest compiler bugs
have not been addressed for quite a while (and across 2 software revisions).
I gave them a 5 line program that demonstrated a class of errors that made
using prof(1) (er prof(CP) -- the idiots) impossible.  No response.  With
things like GCC and TeX you get superb quality at the right price with as
much support as you get from the high-buck vendors.  Oh, did I mention
that we pay through the nose for high-priority service and support from
SCO?  Now, I might not buy an ASV machine, but my criteria include a
cheap realiable machine that runs the stuff off the net and in the archives,
and that's pretty much it.  If Atari can fit the bill, fine.  If not,
maybe I'll get a 486, but not until Hurd is ready...
 
D
 
--
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 8 Dec 91 14:39:26 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!jonh.wi
 msey.bc.ca!jhenders@arizona.edu (John Henders)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In <10014@cactus.org>, Richard Covert writes:
>In article <1991Dec7.155459.21883@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jppg9764@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 (John Paul Pietrzak) writes:
>>In article <9999@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>>
>>Hmm, I wonder just how much ram/HD space you get with that IIci you just
>>bought, considering that Apple still has about 4 meg of ram and 80 meg
>>HD standard, whereas you have on the TT that 20 megs of ram you bought,
>>along with the 200 meg HD that ASV came on.  I get the feeling that
>>ASV will be running more comfortably than A/UX in this situation...
>
>You can add upto 30 megs of RAM to the Mac IIci just by adding the SIMM
>chips. This is unlike the TT which requires an expensive memory board
>made only by Atari to add memory. And just what is the upper limit to
>hard disk space for the TT? On the ST you can have only 32 Megs x
>14 partitions. But I guess you wouldn't have such a limitation under
>ASV anyway.
 
        But Richard, you didn't answer the question(s). ( What else is new )
How much ram do you get in that IIci? And how big a hard drive? And
even if you can just add the simms, how much will that add to thwe cost??
Don't you need 32 bit memory? If the ci comes with 4 meg at the price
you quoted, how much will the other 16 cost?  And how much will it cost
to upgrade to a 210 meg HD?
>
>>
>>>So, yes, not being able to run TOS/GEM programs from within ASV is a serious
>>>drawback. Especially since you won't see anything to replace
>>>PageStream or Calumus under ASV for the forseeable future.
>>
>>Hmm, perhaps you could get by with TeX?  GhostScript?  PSfig?  Nroff/troff/
>>eqn/tbl/etc. ?  Although not nearly as nice and graphical as PageStream
>>or Calamus, they can get the job done.  And, you can always boot the
>>machine up in TOS mode if you really need to.
>>
>But John you don't have to buy a TT to run these programs. Buy any
>80386/80486 and add Dell's UNIX or SCO Xenix and you can run these
>programs. Or buy a SPARC or a Mac with A/UX. the presence of these
>programs on the TT/ASV does not justify buying the TT/ASV system!!
>
        But Richard, have you really priced what a serious EISA ( you
wouldn't want to limit your Unix box to an AT bus now would you? )
bus and 16 meg of ram, wth a 200+ meg ide hard drive and a multi port
serial card and a lan card? Obviously not. Especially when you add in
SCO _Unix_ ( Xenix, Richard, really, I though you knew Unix? ) And
of course, you'll want to add the SCO open desktop package, developer's
version.
>
>Its funny how people can accept the unacceptable whenever it comes to
>Atari computers.
        It's funny how some people came make a career out of fabricating
reasons why people who are perfectly content with what they do with
their machines should spend their time moaning along with him about
how awful everything is. But what's even funnier is this next bit.
>.................I mean, if someone said that the ONLY sw availab;e
>for a specific computer was some obscure PD stuff, would you rush
>out to buy that computer? Especially when the computer costs as much
>as other computers which have thousands of commerically supported
>sw packages for them?
        This is great. Here we have a guy who claims to have ten years
experience programming under Unix, calling TeX, nroff/troff, Gnu
C obscure pd stuff. You can't buy humour this good.
        One other question, Richard. Do you know what compiler ships
with the NeXT?
>.......................Well, it appears that Atarians are so loyal
>as to do just that!! An example is the way Americans buy the German
>version of Turbo C. For which other could someone sell a German
>only compiler for almost $300!! No one but Die Hard Atarians are
>willing to pay so much for so little!!
>
        Of course, most of the people who buy it are experienced C
programmers, and none seem to be complaining about finding it
hard to use.
        Richard, have you ever read the comments in the apple group
on A/ux from the people working with it. Sure, there's lots of
money to be made developing for it. There's no such thing as a simple
port.
 
        I suggest you should start cross posting to rec.humour, Richard.
It's really unfair to keep this stuff in c.s.a.st.
 
 
--
                John Henders            jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
                Vancouver,B.C
 
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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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