Info-Atari16 Digest         Thu, 26 Sep 91       Volume 91 : Issue 507
 
Today's Topics:
                               *.tar.Z
                            ARJ? (2 msgs)
                       ARJ?  K.I.S.S.! (2 msgs)
                        Atari 520 ST For Sale
             Atari appears to be on its way down and out
                       Flight Simulators wanted
                     Going bonkers over Rainbow!
                          Hard Drive Wanted
                           Memory upgrade..
                      Midi Sequencer For Sale..
                        More Lies From Atari?
People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) (2 msgs)
                          Rap/Dance - Atari
             ST Magazines (was Re: More Lies From Atari?)
     Unnkulian Unventure II: The Secret of Acme (Now Available!)
 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Sep 91 03:32:52 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun!tamuts!n160ao@arizona.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: *.tar.Z
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In UNIX a tar.Z file is first uncompresses and then un-tared.
Some utilities do both of these for you.
 
Since I can't seem to get the tar.Z file uncompressed and un-tared and
then into and ARC, LZH, or ZOO file that my ST will read, I need to
get the ST utilities to uncompress and un-tar these files.
 
What do I need from the atari archive?
 
  GNU-tar?  some type of uncompress program?  maybe a utility that does
    them both?
 
Thanks
Mark Lehmann
tamuts.tamu.edu!n160ao
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:09:39 GMT
From: boulder!news@uunet.uu.net (Todd C. Miller)
Subject: ARJ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <3080@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
 
>It's possible (and eminently desirable, if you ask me) to write programs
>like this which work both textually from a command line and graphically
>from the desktop.  It's not even very hard.
>
>Reading this thread, I'm wondering where this idea came from.  Why is it
>that y'all think that if a program uses GEM it's unthinkable for the
>same program to work with arguments from a CLI?
 
If I remember correctly, STzip does what you are saying.  If it is envoked with
command line parameters it acts like a .tos prg.  Otherwise you get a gem menu-
based menu.  The gem version of xyz sort of does this in that you can pass it
parameters just as you would the tos-based one, but if there are no parameters
you are presented with a gem menu.  Of course, the display is gem-based in
either case (ie: when it shows stats of the d/l or u/l)
 
Yes folks it can be done... :-)
 
 - todd
--
Todd C. Miller                    | "But all the politiCIAns now
millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU        |  They have no excuse
al804@cleveland.Freenet.Edu       |  They just hide behind their power
University of Colorado @ Boulder  |  And keep us from the truth" - Roger McGuinn
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 11:44:11 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!qmw-dcs!icdoc!syma!grahamt@uunet.uu.net (Graham Thomas)
Subject: ARJ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
From article <1991Sep24.023402.1406@actrix.gen.nz>, by
 Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard):
>
> You can now find all these Thomas Quester Programs on GEnie, as I
> uploaded them, LZH201_E.LZH, PFX_17E.LZH and AFX_12E.LZH.
>
> Note: they all come with English Doc's
 
Could some kind soul please upload these to atari.archive so that people
without GEnie accounts can get them?  Last time I looked (24th Sept.)
the latest version of lharc was lzh201d, and that had helpfiles etc. in
German.
 
Thanks,
 
Graham
--
Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK
Email: grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk   Phone: +44 273 678165  Fax: +44 273 685865
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:56:19 GMT
From: beguine!bbs.oit.unc.edu@mcnc.org (Scott Bigham)
Subject: ARJ?  K.I.S.S.!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <3079@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>Please, it's not that hard to make a program do double duty as a GEM
>program with menus and windows and icons and as a CLI program with a
>bewildering set of confusing switches that you have to look up every
>time you want to use the program for something different.
> [...]
>Keep it simple.  Put it in one program, with an embedded resource
>file, and make it work graphically from the desktop, or textually
>from a shell.
>--
>   |||   Ken Badertscher  (ames!atari!kbad)
>   |||   Atari Corp. System Software Engine
>  / | \  #include <disclaimer>
 
Okay, this begs the obvious question.  How?
 
More specifically, how can my program determine whether it was called from
the desktop (or Neodesk/Gemini/etc.) or from a CLI?  A first idea might be
to assume that if the program received no parameters, it was invoked from
the desktop; this doesn't always wash, though (witness 'zoo' when called
with no parameters).
 
Followups to .tech.
 
--
Scott Bigham                    | The opinions expressed above are
bigham@hercules.acpub.duke.edu  | (c) 1991 Hacker Ltd. and cannot be
or 'R' to this as a last resort | copied or distributed without a
                                | Darn Good Reason.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 128.109.157.30
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:13:58 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@arizona
 .edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: ARJ?  K.I.S.S.!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
[In article <1991Sep25.161812.25625@convex.com>,
     rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes ... ]
 
 > i only see two problems here. first, burrying GEM code in a an application
 > making it "bisexual", if you will, makes it larger (obviously). bundling
 
Not as much as you might think. A decent GEM interface for a simple utility
can be built using a few AES library calls. Assuming you don't go hog-wild,
a GEM interface need not bloat a program any more than using printf instead
of fputs (a common source of code bloat). ZOOSHELL is currently 13991 bytes,
but I'll bet that most of its functionality could be wedged into ZOO 2.1
without swelling it up more than 7 or 8K.
 
Any program with a reasonable structure (i.e., main is used as a top-level
flow-control module) should be easy to GEM-ify by adding
 
    if (argc == 0)
        gem();
 
.. at the top of main() and writing a separate GEM module that never
returns.
 
 > GEM-only users have no idea what a PATH is so they tend to lump all their
 > tools in a few places. i know i did way back when i first got my ST. of
 
This is a good opener for my own tirade.
 
I'm griped no end by GEM applications that don't make the best use of
the resources that are built into the system, including argument-passing,
the environment (especially PATH), and the scrp_ functions. Part of this
is Atari's damned fault for not providing a decent manual and environment-
setting tools with the system. Part of it is just plain bullheadedness
on the part of programmers who won't accept the idea of more than one
way of doing things. If they write a mouse-controlled program, then by
golly you'd better not have your coffee cup sitting on the mouse pad.
 
Let me give you an example: Aladdin. It's a wonderful program. It makes
GEnie, the online system with the interface only its mother could love,
into a pleasant experience. But it's needlessly crippled:
 
-- You can't communicate with it with command arguments. It has a great
   script language for automating your sessions, but you have to run it
   manually because you have to point and click to start a script! This
   is monumentally silly, since argument-passing is so easy to add to
   a GEM program. I should be able to launch Aladdin from an event timer
   for unattended midnight sessions, or from a Gemini/Mupfel script for
   one-click mail retrieval.
 
-- It doesn't have enough sense to search for its own files. You have to
   be logged into its directory to use it. Environment variables would
   avoid this problem.
 
-- It can't support more than one user. Environment variables, again.
 
-- It saves cut/paste information to disk as a SCRAP.TXT file, but it
   does NOT use the GEM-supported scrp_read and scrp_write routines
   to determine where to put the file. This means other programs
   (text editors, Gemini, etc.) can't share information with Aladdin
   unless they bend to meet Aladdin's usage. That's not right.
 
Another example is PageStream. It's a fine program and it does what
it's supposed to do, but why in the world doesn't it support arguments?
 
You ought to be able to install PageStream as a GEM application and
launch it automatically by double-clicking one of its documents (which,
by the way, should NOT be ID'd with the DOC extension that Soft Logik
selected). Hey, folks, this isn't some new GEM feature that came along
with the TT Desktop! ``Install Application'' has been around since the
original disk-based Mushroom TOS.
 
 --
 Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota
 steve@thelake.mn.org (In winter we walk on water)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Sep 91 01:52:39 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!gterpin@arizona.
 edu (gregory.d.terpin)
Subject: Atari 520 ST For Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I am posting this for a friend.  Please do not respond to me
via email.  Please contact Mike for any further details.
 
************************************************************
 
I have an Atari ST 520 for sale. The system is practically
brand new. Comes complete with all documentation. For
example, ST Basic Sourcebook & Tutorial, Owners Manual,
Software, and Mouse. I also have a cable which you can use
to hook up to a standard IBM VGA monitor.
 
I will include four games valued over $100. They are
Dungeon Master 1 & 2, Silent Service, and Sub Battle.
 
I am asking $300 for everything.
 
Please call 312-585-1858 or leave a message if I am not
home.
 
Mike
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:17:01 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.co
 lumbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixa.cc.columbia.edu!ia4@arizona.edu (Imran
 Anwar)
Subject: Atari appears to be on its way down and out
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
That is what I am saying, ataricoMp good, ataricoRp bad.... :-)
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 22:21:34 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@uunet.uu.net (Techno)
Subject: Flight Simulators wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu ( EVENSONG) writes:
 
[...]
 
>Also, I am interested in in any information that anyone may have about
>running a high resolution stick with a flight simulator on the ST...
 
Maybe you should look into 'Flight of the Intruder' by Spectrum Holobyte.
Not only is it of the same high quality as 'Falcon', but it allows the
use of many different controlers as well. Most of these I have never
heard of here in Germany, but it does include a RC for model planes.
 
                        Hope this helps,
 
                                 Techno
 
--
| techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! |
| techno@lime.in-berlin.de   / | \ Hardcore ST user !  ====================== |
| Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. |
|                                        (Al Stewart)                         |
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Sep 91 00:32:49 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.pri
 mate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!milton!nntp.uoregon.edu!oregon!jmconnel@ar
 izona.edu
Subject: Going bonkers over Rainbow!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Thought I'd pass on some happy news.... I just upgraded my 520STfm to
2.5MBytes and TOS 1.4!  Life is good.  My hard drive, now with a disk
cache, never seemed so wonderful.  I'm probably last person on the planet
to have made such an upgrade.  I've been struggling with limited memory
and a deprived OS for five years.  The sun is out and I can see the Rainbow.
Atari you done good.  You haven't used an ST unless you've used one with
more that half a mege and TOS 1.4!
I'd love to chat some more but I hear the call of the wild ST....
 
                                        
 
************************************************************************
* John McConnell                        'No, no, no! ... That regular  *
* JMCONNEL@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU            rock!  Me need Phillips!'     *
*                                                     - Gary Larson    *
************************************************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Sep 91 00:46:54 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!jjl101@arizona.edu
 (J.J. Lehett)
Subject: Hard Drive Wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
       Subject line says it all... reasonably priced hard drive wanted.
Talk to me if you have one....
 
                              J.J.
********************************************************************
*       *       John J. Lehett            *     JJL101@PSUVM       *
*  J.J. *         Penn State              *                        *
*       *  Center for Academic Computing  *  JJL101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU  *
********************************************************************
*  Atari ST's!, Games, Puzzles, Cryptos, Programming, Chaos Theory *
********************************************************************
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 20:51:15 GMT
From: coplex!disk!unknown@uunet.uu.net (unknown)
Subject: Memory upgrade..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
     I'm looking for a memory upgrade for my 520ST.  I've got one of the
first models with TOS in ROM..  made in '85..  I want to upgrade to 2.5
meg as cheap as possible.  Does anyone know of a place that will install
the memory reliably and warranty it for a reasonable time?  I've heard
that memory chips are really cheap lately, so I figure now is the best
time to upgrade.  I do NOT want the new tos included or anything.  I think
Atari has to be crazy to come out with so many new TOS versions and expect
people to pay to upgrade and lose compatibility.  Tos 1.0 and 1.2 must
have ten times the software available than the new TOS versions.  And how
many TT's are in use in the US?  Surely they make up WAY WAY WAY less than
1 percent of computers in use in the US.  Getting a memory upgrade will
finally be my final upgrade to this ST, unless Atari starts changing
things fast.
     Well, I was posting to check on memory upgrade prices, not to
complain..  If anyone can get me prices and names/numbers, please do.
Also, I'd appreciate if you could just mail them to me.  Our newsfeed
isn't that reliable here.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Shawn Beltz              :) :) :)   The opinions expressed in this message are
unknown@disk.UUCP                   the opinions expressed in this message are
uunet!ukma!corpane!disk!unknown     the opinions expressed in this message....
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:21:08 GMT
From: ulowell!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!douglas@uunet.uu.net (Douglas C White)
Subject: Midi Sequencer For Sale..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
Greetings World..
        FOR SALE:       Passport Designs MASTER TRACKS PRO V-3.6
                        Complete with all documentation, updates.
                        Asking $175.00
 
        I am the original owner so passport support is available.
As well as is the ability to upgrade now or in the future to the
Macintosh or IBM version.
 
        Call:   (508) 831-5237 (weekdays)
                (508) 835-6772 ( eves, weekends)
        or reply via net.  Ask for Doug.
 
               -Thanks-
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--
Douglas White                         douglas@wpi.wpi.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng.
WPI
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 22:42:19 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@uunet.uu.net (Techno)
Subject: More Lies From Atari?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
[...]
 
Well, the ST-BOOK is available here in Germany. I've seen one here
at my dealer two days ago.
 
Features:
1 MByte RAM, 40 MB HD, cost 4000.- DM
I/O: MIDI, DMA, parallel, serial, system bus, external mouse
built-in modem optional, external 1.44 MByte (!) 3.5" disk drive optional
10h battery life on optional accu pack, rechargeable inside 2h during mains
operation.
 
Personal optinion: I like the thing, esp. the screen and the VectorPad.
 
                            Techno
 
--
| techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! |
| techno@lime.in-berlin.de   / | \ Hardcore ST user !  ====================== |
| Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. |
|                                        (Al Stewart)                         |
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:54:20 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p
 itt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!darling@arizona.edu (Thomas
 Darling)
Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Butler) writes:
 
> I'm (trying) to jump ship (sorry). I LOVE my Mega, I really do, but "power
> without the price" is dead. Also I run a DTP company, and need compatibility
> with "everyone else", which means Mac (but I do like the ST better, but gotta
> make money!).
 
A word of advice:  Buying SPECTRE (Mac emulator) for your Mega will cost you a
couple hundred $.  But buying a Mac will cost you a LOT more.  If you really
do love your Mega, you owe it to yourself to check this option out.
 
~
darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing
uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT
v
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 21:36:40 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-s
 tate.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!reeves@arizona.edu
 (Terry Reeves)
Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
I don't know about anybody else, but I upgraded. I wanted to have 4 megs in
my old 1040. The price for the memory, JRI board, and labor would have been
$375. The price of a new 520 STE with 4 meg was $575. I sold the 1040
yesterday morning to a friend for $200. So far, I'm pleased with how things
have turned out. Now, I need to see if I can find some documentation on how
to program for the new hardware.
 
                                                Terry Reeves
 
Disclaimer: SLAC doesn't care what I think.
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:49:28 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.e
 du!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!rlcollins@arizona.edu (Ryan 'Gozar'
 Collins)
Subject: Rap/Dance - Atari
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <RN4R91w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
 (Michel Forget) writes:
> Anyone else have something to add?
 
On the show "Growing Pains" on ABC, if there is a scene with computers
in it, they usually use a Mega ST. (Last weeks episode had Carol moving
into her dorm room, and she had a Mega ST set up on her desk.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan 'Gozar' Collins      Question for MAC Users:      rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET
   ||||   Power Without    What IS the format of a     rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET
  / || \  The Price!!       MAC HFS floppy disk?       R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 26 Sep 91 04:47:16 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!netcomsv!seitz@arizona.edu (Matthew
 Seitz)
Subject: ST Magazines (was Re: More Lies From Atari?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
In article <1991Sep22.182344.11151@doug.cae.wisc.edu> carter@cae.wisc.edu
 (Gregory Carter) writes:
>
>Current Notes is a fine Mag.  But its quite hard to get where I am.
>(Material or article content included is great, layout is crappy.)
 
Easy enough problem to solve.  Subscribe! $27/year (10 issues)
CN Subscriptions
122 N. Johnson Rd.
Sterling, VA 22170
--
                                        Matthew Seitz
                                        seitz@netcom.com
 
------------------------------
 
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:36:22 GMT
From:
 europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!noc.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!dm
 b@uunet.uu.net (David M. Baggett)
Subject: Unnkulian Unventure II: The Secret of Acme (Now Available!)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
 
(This will look REAL familiar to you Mac folks.  But please read
the administrative notes at the end, even if you've already read
the prvevious UU2 announcement.  Thanks.)
 
Unnkulian Unventure II: The Secret of Acme is now available!  It's
now a year after the end of Unnkulian Unventure I, and the fame
you garnered by recovering the Orb of Studosity is fading fast.
You have to do something quick, or you'll fade away into permanent
non-entityhood!  What happened to the Unnkulians?  Why are Acme
products so bad?  What is this cheez stuff, really?  Your quest
will answer these questions and more!
 
Unnkulian Unventure II is now available for ftp from the following places:
 
PC version:     msdos.archive.umich.edu: msdos/UPLOADS/uu2v101.zip
Mac version:    mac.archive.umich.edu: mac/games/adventure/<long+obvious_name>
Atari version:  atari.archive.umich.edu: atari/games/tads/uu2v10*.lzh
 
The version currently at atari.archive.umich.edu is v1.0, but it
should be updated to v1.01 (which is what the others are) soon.
The copy at msdos.archive.umich.edu will move to its proper home
in msdos/games at some point in the future.
 
Note to Amiga owners:  Nope, there's no Amiga version.   (Sorry.)
If you want an Amiga version, you'll have to convince Mike Roberts
(author of TADS, the system with which the Unnkulian series is
written) to make an Amiga version of TADS.
 
Unnkulian Unventure II is a direct sequel to Unnkulian Unventure I,
so it's advisable (but not required) to play Unventure I before
starting on II.  Many things in II will be clearer (and funnier)
if you've played I.  Unventure I can be found in the following places:
 
PC version:     msdos.archive.umich.edu or garbo.uwasa.fi
Mac version:    mac.archive.umich.edu or sumex-aim.stanford.edu
Atari version:  atari.archive.umich.edu
 
Unnkulian Unventure II is shareware, $10, same as Unventure I.  It
is, however, written by a different person (me).  Parts III and IV
are in the works -- the message at the end of II is for real!
 
If you have any questions, problems, &c, please write.  (Mac-specific
note should go to nebel@wam.umd.edu; I'll handle the PC and Atari
versions myself.)  In particular, please report any bugs you find
so I can fix them before too many people encounter them.  :)
 
ADMINISTRATIVE NOTE:  Please post UU2 hint requests and other game
discussion to REC.GAMES.MISC, not to rec.games.programmer,
rec.arts.int-fiction, or the comp.sys.* groups.  Since UU2 runs on
three different machines, I think it'll be best to keep discussion
all in one group.
 
[Thanks to Chris Nebel for writing most of the above in his post
to comp.sys.mac.games.  I've shamelessly borrowed his sterling
prose.]
 
Dave Baggett
dmb@wam.umd.edu
 
------------------------------
 
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
